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Roy6

05-10-2005, 09:01 PM

How do you play these situations?

Hand1:

No read on SB, CO is LP, likes to fold the river.
I have a very good image.
Do you bet the turn? The pot is very small and a straight draw might call. River is awful, I hope he has a missed flush so bet it.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
2 folds, CO calls, 1 fold, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, CO checks.

Turn: (1.50 BB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, CO calls, SB folds.

River: (3.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets,

Hand2:

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hand2:
CO is the same LP guy, as in the previous hand. SB is an average player. I expect a bet on the flop with a T, 7 and a flush draw, and maybe with Ax from CO. So SB tells he has no ace, it seems to be an easy bet..
Although the pot is again very small.

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
2 folds, CO calls, 1 fold, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, CO checks.

Turn: (1.50 BB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets,

Final Pot: 2.50 BB

Hand3:
Both opponent very loose. The turn is a double scare card.
I think a call here would be a mistake, but my hand is too good to give up, so I bet..

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
2 folds, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

Turn: (1.50 BB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets,

Surfbullet

05-10-2005, 09:17 PM

These hands have a few things in common.

1) The pot on the turn is microscopic - 1.5BBs. This means since you are wagering 1 to win 1.5 - so everyone has to fold a large amount (66%) of the time to make this profitable.
2) you have nothing (except hand3, mediocre flush draw)
3) your opponents are prone to calling too much

These factors make these plays generally a bad idea. If the pot were bigger, or your opponents liked to fold, or there was a good chance your hand was best, then these would be better plays.

I can see the 3rd hand being a bet, because you've got a shot at making the best hand - but you'd have to be able to fold if you were raised because you don't have odds(implied or otherwise) to try and hit your flush.

Surf

mperich

05-10-2005, 09:27 PM

At 10/20 I bet any unraised pot that has been checked thru on the flop, from any position although I prefer UTG since I would most likely check a hand on the flop from that position. I think I show a large profit with this move and noone seems to get wise.

-Mike

Roy6

05-10-2005, 09:34 PM

You are certainly right. I asked it becasue I was unsure about it even though I won all of them uncontested.
But here's an other aspect:
Yes, the pot is small, but that also means my bet gives poor odds to draw. Of course, if they have the A (and A /images/graemlins/spade.gif certainly bets the flop so only 2 aces left), let it be.
In hand1 for example, I'd certainly muck all kind of straight draws, and possibly the flush draw with the K.
My outs could be tainted, and it would be so nasty to check/call even if I hit my K, but no flush.
So maybe that's a better move when your opponents are better (?).
I always have the feeling these kind of hands are always won by the one who takes the initiative.

brassnuts

05-11-2005, 01:53 AM

I think these types of hands come down to feel. I rarely will take a stab at such small pots. However, when you have some command over a table, it's pretty obvious when a bet will take down a small pot.

mperich

05-11-2005, 02:07 AM

I think not taking a stab at these pots is a big leak in a lot of players games. A very big leak.

-Mike

wrto4556

05-11-2005, 02:27 AM

Yeah, but you don't make a stab no matter what. These players are loose and passive. They could be checking middle pair on the flop but intending to call down. With it not being heads up in any of these hands and being against players that will call you down with bad (but better) hands, I think it's a bad idea to try and pick up these small pots.

mperich

05-11-2005, 02:39 AM

If your opponents are VERY loose ok. If they are average-semiloose I still bet 100% almost. It's just too much money too often not to do it.

-Mike

Surfbullet

05-11-2005, 03:13 AM

How often would you say you take these pots down, mike?

I agree that one can definitely pick up more than their fair share of these with well-timed bets...but 100% of the time is wayyyyy to predictable IMHO.

Surf