Just Registered Here; Please Eval My 2/4 Stats (~40k hands)

[kahntrutahn]

Ok, a quick explanation of these numbers.

1) 3 different handles on 3 different party skins (my 3rd and final handle is using rakeback because I want to make money playing cards /images/graemlins/laugh.gif )

2) My original numbers were the BEST, Ive actually gone down in BB/100 since then, perhaps it was a fluke?

3) I multi-table 3-4 tables at a time; usually 4.

4) All stats are 2/4 limit at full ring @ Party & Skins.



Give me pretty much any comment you want to make given the numbers and the things I say with each set of numbers. I am thirsty for criticisms, encouragements, etc.

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*** OVERALL STATS *** (3 diff IDs; aggregate numbers)

VP$IP = 20.1%
PFR% = 8.88%
BB/100= 1.91



*** First Handle @ PP ***

NOTES: I was playing after freshly reading SuperSystem 2 (Jennifer Harmon's Limit Play Section) and Phil Hellmuth's Play Poker Like The Pro's. I was playing more hands regardless of position, 3 betting small PP to single limper/raisers to isolate, hardly ever check-raised (0.64% of possible actions)and in general being more aggressive pre-flop & flop.

Sample Size = 15,122 hands
VP$IP = 22.81%
PFT% = 10.65%
BB/100= 2.46
AGF = 2.54
PT classification = SLA/A
WT SD = 33.47%
W$SD = 51.64%


*** 2nd Handle @ Empire ***

I had lost a bit of steam @ PP in the last 5k hands or so before I made this handle to clear a bonus and get a copy of PokerEdge (useless program to me now, I don't ever run it). I also wanted to start with a fresh name and a new game. I decided to pay more attention to position, stop 3 betting pre-flop with small/mid PP and some other general things I picked up reading around the net. I wanted to be TA/A which I heard was the best to be (not to mention noticed the TA/A at the tables were making a good bit).

Sample Size = 13,011 hands
VP$IP = 18.58%
PFR% = 8.1%
BB/100= 1.7
AGF = 2.74
PT Classification = TA/A
WT SD = 28.15%
W$SD = 56.85%

*** 3rd Handle @ Eurobet ***

Decided I wanted to take advantage of rakeback after seeing the amounts I was paying to the house were damn near what I was winning! I also purchased and read Small Stakes Hold'em after hearing so much about it here at 2+2 while lurking. Thus, my goal, was to be more selectively tight and really work on improving my game. I got off to a terrible -115 BB start in the first 3k hands and have since worked it back into the black. These stats are current.

Sample Size = 9,829 hands
VP$IP = 18.12%
PFR = 7.17%
BB/100= 1.28
AGF = 2.62
PT Classification = TA/A
WT SD = 28.77%
W$SD = 57.41%


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I gave myself 4 months starting April 1st to learn Low Limit Poker which is about all I can afford before I have to actually use any of the money from the bankroll for living expenses. I live in a part of the country with low living expenses, thus, it isn't hard to subsist on ~1k a month given a certain lifestyle that I am accustomed to being a recent college grad. However, I would like to pull 50k/year+, which I hear is not unheard of w/ internet play and rakeback. I do not play much at the local casino's as they mostly offer 3/6/12, 10/20, and 1/3 NL. I figure I might try the 10/20 out when I move up, and start doing well (2+ bb/100) in the 3/6 online games.

Originally I planned to stick to 2/4 until I was crushing them @ 3BB/100 with 100k+ hand sampling before moving up? What do you think of this plan? Is that too lofty a goal? Is it even acheivable/sustainable? Should I simply hit and sustain 2BB/100 and then move up to 3/6? ** I've dabbled in 3/6 but w/2k hands Im not ready to post those numbers as I don't think they have any statistical significance. **


Anyway, any comments, criticisms, reccomendations, etc are appreciated.

[TheHip41]

you are beating 2/4 for 1.xx after 40,000

I wouldn't quit my day job just yet.

[kahntrutahn]

I know I have a long way to go, but I'm good with money and in no hurry. I was self-employed throughout college and after shutting my business down and getting a "real job" again I decided those were no fun and to work on finding something I could do "on my own terms" again.

Thanks though, I get your point, and it is well taken /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Shillx]

You look to be getting more weak-tight as you move along, but numbers don't really tell the whole story. By weak-tight I mean not raising enough hands preflop and not going to as many showdowns as one would expect. The AF is kinda a misleading stat because someone who turns lots of close calls into folds will have a big AF but might be leaking in those spots that come up quite often. Just because you are aggressive postflop doesn't mean that you aren't weak, rather it might suggest that you are playing too much of a raise or fold type game.

The problem with the above is that it really doesn't address where your PFR% is coming from. If an unknown raises from early position and you 3-bet with pocket fours, that could explain the difference (in a not so good way). If however, you were doing things like isolating bad limpers or making nice value raises with hands like JTs after 4 limpers on the button, then you should want to go back to that style. Clearly your first batch of numbers from Party look the best, but that doesn't really mean that you were playing your best poker at that time.

Brad

[TheHip41]

[ QUOTE ]
I know I have a long way to go, but I'm good with money and in no hurry. I was self-employed throughout college and after shutting my business down and getting a "real job" again I decided those were no fun and to work on finding something I could do "on my own terms" again.

Thanks though, I get your point, and it is well taken /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Give it two years, you won't want to do this for a living.

Don't quit your day job.

[kahntrutahn]

Yes, I have feared that I was becoming more weak-tight also. Also I am concerned about the PFR% dropping as it has. I think perhaps my last set of numbers... the last 10k hands are a bit misleading due to the huge downswing I encountered right from the get-go, so perhaps my 60k checkup will be a bit more telling. However, I just couldn't wait to get some outside opinions as I know noone else who plays online... only live game low limit players and I don't think 3/6/12 live translates to 2/4 online very well *shrug*

[kahntrutahn]

late bump

[LImitPlayer]

Don't know if you are aware of this or not but you can combine your stats from your 3 different handles to give you an overall picture by using the alias tab

[kahntrutahn]

Thanks for the tip... but I knew it already... unfortunately, PT can "break" and refuse to release an alias, forcing you to rebuild the entire database (already happened once) thus I keep them seperate.

[Harv72b]

My first warning sign is that you considered these three numbers to be the be all/end all of your total stats:

[ QUOTE ]
*** OVERALL STATS *** (3 diff IDs; aggregate numbers)

VP$IP = 20.1%
PFR% = 8.88%
BB/100= 1.91

[/ QUOTE ]

VPIP is important, yes. So is PFR percentage. Win rate is important to your pocketbook, but has no value whatsoever in a stats review. Aside from the WR thing, the problem here is that you're focusing entirely on preflop decision-making. Preflop is the easiest part of hold'em to learn, and the rest of your post makes it clear that you are learning it & making the necessary adjustments to what hands you're playing & when. Woohoo. But postflop is where you make (or lose) your money, and you're actually getting worse in that regard.

[ QUOTE ]
Sample Size = 15,122 hands
VP$IP = 22.81%
PFT% = 10.65%
BB/100= 2.46
AGF = 2.54
PT classification = SLA/A
WT SD = 33.47%
W$SD = 51.64%

[/ QUOTE ]

What I see with your first handle is what you described--someone who is playing too many hands preflop, with the most likely culprit being lack of positional awareness. But the rest of your numbers are healthy! You're raising enough preflop, going to showdown often enough, and winning enough showdowns; actually, you're right in the sweet zone for these last two categories. You didn't break down your aggression factor by street (important to do), but the overall number also looks good. In short, while you're lacking in preflop play at this stage, you appear to be doing quite well in the vastly more important postflop decision-making.

Then...

[ QUOTE ]
Sample Size = 13,011 hands
VP$IP = 18.58%
PFR% = 8.1%
BB/100= 1.7
AGF = 2.74
PT Classification = TA/A
WT SD = 28.15%
W$SD = 56.85%

[/ QUOTE ]

Bleh. In your quest to reach some holy grail of stat-dom, you turned yourself into a weak/tighty. Your VPIP seems to be more on par, but you're now not raising enough preflop (although 8.1 is acceptable, it's not ideal) and you're folding way too often postflop. End result? Your Won$atSD is too high, and your win rate has gone down. The overall aggression factor has gone up, but I suspect that has more to do with folding too often when you had been calling than it does with properly applying postflop aggression. You have somehow managed to improve your preflop play while forgetting the postflop lessons which had led to your early success.

[ QUOTE ]
Sample Size = 9,829 hands
VP$IP = 18.12%
PFR = 7.17%
BB/100= 1.28
AGF = 2.62
PT Classification = TA/A
WT SD = 28.77%
W$SD = 57.41%

[/ QUOTE ]

...and then you get even worse here. You're raising even less preflop, your aggression factor is down postflop, and you're still folding too often after seeing the flop. Now, I understand that a nasty downswing can & will affect your game, but you are still playing too weak/tight to maximize your profits!!

I have no idea what happened here, as I can't recall seeing someone who got worse at the game when they started studying it more dilligently (to say nothing of the fact that you actually managed to win money in the early goings with PPLTP as one of your guides /images/graemlins/tongue.gif). All the usual crap about sample size etc. aside, you need to do a lot more reading here & in books on how to play postflop; a weak/tight style will win for you on party 2/4, but you'll struggle to break even on 3/6 & will get eaten alive playing at mid-stakes that way.

[ QUOTE ]
Originally I planned to stick to 2/4 until I was crushing them @ 3BB/100 with 100k+ hand sampling before moving up? What do you think of this plan? Is that too lofty a goal? Is it even acheivable/sustainable? Should I simply hit and sustain 2BB/100 and then move up to 3/6?

[/ QUOTE ]

Beating Party 2/4 for 3 BB/100 over a sustained period of time is very achievable, and in fact I'd go so far as to say that if you can't do that, you need to make some serious adjustments to your game before you can expect to succeed at higher levels. Think of 2/4 as the proving ground--you're not at the microlimits with all the uberfish anymore, but for the most part you won't run into the quality of player you'll see at mid-stakes either. Getting your postflop play down before moving any higher is a must, especially if you are hoping to one day live off of the money you make on poker (although, given what you say about the cost of living where you are, you can probably subsist just fine by 4-tabling 2/4 indefinitely).

[kahntrutahn]

Thankyou! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Insofar as the 3 overall stats, that is due to not combining the aliases (PT goofed on me doing this previously and I had to rebuild the database... PITA) So those are hand calculated.


I thought about providing aggression per street, but didn't... so I will now:

[/i]Aggression Factor By Street[/i]
Alias #1 : F 2.84 T 2.54 R 2.05
Alias #2 : F 2.81 T 3.01 R 2.25
Alias #3 : F 2.84 T 3.06 R 1.95 (current)


Would this suggest I am not value betting the river often enough currently?