Countering the GSIH short buy method

[Ghazban]

I haven't even read the book but my understanding is that there is a short buy system described in "Getting Started in Holdem" that is similar to "The System" detailed in TPFAP. I've seen a lot of short buyins today who are going all-in frequently and suspect they might be using this method.

Two part question:
1) What, exactly, is the method? I don't have the book and don't have any plans to pick it up in the near future. I hate to encourage plagiarism, but a paraphrased version would be appreciated.
2) How can it be countered? I think this might follow logically from (1) once I know the exact parameters but it seems like I'm basically making a lot of EV-neutral calls of the all-ins based on guesstimates of their hand ranges versus the pot odds I'm getting. For example, in a 4-handed game, I raised K7s to 3x on the button after UTG limped and the shortstacked BB pushed (UTG folded). I ended up calling with slightly worse than 2:1 odds and lost to his AQo.

[Jordan Olsommer]

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I haven't even read the book but my understanding is that there is a short buy system described in "Getting Started in Holdem" that is similar to "The System" detailed in TPFAP.

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Pretty much - the only major difference being that the GSiH short-stack system actually works. I played in god knows how many tournaments trying out the TPFAP systems (both basic and advanced) and they never once got me into the money (and for the record, they're both complete recipes; no thinking involved. You just need a calculator by your side for the advanced system).

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Two part question:
1) What, exactly, is the method? I don't have the book and don't have any plans to pick it up in the near future. I hate to encourage plagiarism, but a paraphrased version would be appreciated.


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I outlined the method in detail here (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=2296447&page=0&view=c ollapsed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1) in my post on the subject, but the readers digest condensed version is just "play ultra-tight, get weaker hands to call the biggest raise you can milk out of them, and get all-in against these hands while you still have the best of it."

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2) How can it be countered?

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Simple - just recognize who's doing it and when they raise, don't give them any action without a premium hand. The whole reason the system works is because people don't pay attention and will call a 4xBb raise with inferior hands, especially when the raise is coming from someone who hasn't played a hand in the last hour.

[Ghazban]

Thanks for the link; I saw your post before but decided it was too long for me to read -- shame on me /images/graemlins/frown.gif

The people using it are very easy to spot; I generally have next to no hands on them in my database (I have hundreds of hands on the majority of players I see in the Party 200 game) and they're the ONLY people in this game buying in for under $100.

Having the specific rules on hand reduces proper counterstrategy down to a math problem.

[Jordan Olsommer]

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Having the specific rules on hand reduces proper counterstrategy down to a math problem.

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I don't think it's even that hard - the only time you really need to consider the math is if you want to think about optimum strategies to exploit the reraising rules outlined in the book (he has a bunch of criteria for when its proper to call a reraise, based on the ratio of the amount of money you [the player using the short stack system] have left vs. the amount that you raised initially)

Other than that, it's basically tiddlywinks - the only stipulation is you have to pay attention (which is of course why it works most of the time). I mean after all once you see somebody do a small buy-in and go all-in a few times, just look at the book and you have their exact range of hands for each position! If a short-stacker raises 4xBb from early position, you know he has to have AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, AKs, or AKo. If he limps in on the button or the cutoff, you know he has a pocket pair or two suited cards 10 or higher (actually, to be technical about it, you know that he has a pocket pair lower than 77 or JTs, QTs, KJs, JQs, or KTs, since pairs and "suited ten-or-better"s higher than this call for a raise according to the system)