pokerrookie
05-10-2005, 01:00 AM
I have been thinking lately as I struggle to confidently make the leap from micro to small stakes holdem.
One of the important goals for the players on this forum is to make money. Very often, and equally important, perhaps secondary goal is to become a better poker player. It follows that as you get better, you can beat higher limits, and then you can make more money (goal 1).
However, for myself, and it seems others, there is a psychological barrier to making a jump up in levels. I know that some will say, if you aren't ready to make the jump, then you must not be good enough, mentally strong enough. So anyway, what I do for this is stay at the comfortable levels...those levels where I can "crush" the game, and when the cards do run cold, I am not losing the proverbial shirt. It seems then that one way to learn would be to jump directly in the highest limit, toughest game you can find. This would, of course, be bankroll suicide and would quickly get you away from the table altogether. Paying for your lessons, I think is what they call this. With an unlimited bankroll, after doing this a few times, you would learn some serious lessons, and eventually become a decent poker player. With an unlimited bankroll, the goal of making money is moot, however.
These ramblings lead me to an idea. What if a group of 9 people hired a small stakes "expert" to play with us at a manageable limit? Why should we avoid experts to make more money, when sitting with them would prep us for the higher limits. I would like to think I play a game that could beat the 5/10 game, as I am sure others feel the same. How will we know this until we sit with each other, and include some 5/10 experts and give it a go. I have sat anonymously at one twoplustwo table, thinking I would get a nice challenging match. I think I doubled up by playing my normal style. Does this mean I am better than them...I say no way! This was a serious lagfest, and I have heard this is very typical. I actually felt like I gained nothing from this experience, with the exception of the good times I had acting as if I had just stumbled into this shark tank...even had a post asking for me to identify myself. Pretty humorous, yes, but increasing my skill at poker, nah.
So here's the idea. A group of 8 micro players, with ambition of making the 3/6 and higher games get together at 0.5/1 (I think any lower, and it turns into a "lagfest"). We invite 2 people who claim to be crushing the 3/6 or higher games. We play for some predetermined time limit, say 2 hours (any shorter would result in a far too small sample for the experts to judge our play). We could play at a site like Absolute Poker, only because it allows us to show our folded cards. We could then have running chat, led by the experts, of course, to explain how we screwed up, how we played well, and most importantly whether our play would be good at the higher limits. Are there leaks in our game which make money at the fish fest micros but might be exploited big time at the higher limits? At the end of the session, we all send our hand histories to the "experts" for a brief review and further critique advice on our play. Now where do these experts come from? I have no real idea who the experts are...you guys can help me out with that. Heck, anyone that considers themselves an expert, PM me, and you are in. I would like to have someone that is beating the 3/6 to 5/10 game for say 1.8-2 BB/100, but beggers can't be choosers. Also, with 8 of us playing, the expert would get to keep all that he wins from us, and I would be willing to throw 10 bucks his way for his time. If all 8 of us pitch in 10 bucks, the two experts get 40 bucks for two hours. Surely they could be making more than that by playing themselves, but guaranteed money, is well, guaranteed. B/c we are paying for the knowledge, I would expect the expert to play only our table, so he/she can give full attention.
Amyway, you guys get the idea. Is there any interest in a serious (not chip spewing) poker game amongst people that consider themselves good, and want to get better, but have some hesitations to learning by fire? And are there any experts willing to give us the lessons at the table, for a measly 20 bucks an hour, or if feeling extremely generous, for free. Or is this just the dumbest idea anyone has ever proposed?
One of the important goals for the players on this forum is to make money. Very often, and equally important, perhaps secondary goal is to become a better poker player. It follows that as you get better, you can beat higher limits, and then you can make more money (goal 1).
However, for myself, and it seems others, there is a psychological barrier to making a jump up in levels. I know that some will say, if you aren't ready to make the jump, then you must not be good enough, mentally strong enough. So anyway, what I do for this is stay at the comfortable levels...those levels where I can "crush" the game, and when the cards do run cold, I am not losing the proverbial shirt. It seems then that one way to learn would be to jump directly in the highest limit, toughest game you can find. This would, of course, be bankroll suicide and would quickly get you away from the table altogether. Paying for your lessons, I think is what they call this. With an unlimited bankroll, after doing this a few times, you would learn some serious lessons, and eventually become a decent poker player. With an unlimited bankroll, the goal of making money is moot, however.
These ramblings lead me to an idea. What if a group of 9 people hired a small stakes "expert" to play with us at a manageable limit? Why should we avoid experts to make more money, when sitting with them would prep us for the higher limits. I would like to think I play a game that could beat the 5/10 game, as I am sure others feel the same. How will we know this until we sit with each other, and include some 5/10 experts and give it a go. I have sat anonymously at one twoplustwo table, thinking I would get a nice challenging match. I think I doubled up by playing my normal style. Does this mean I am better than them...I say no way! This was a serious lagfest, and I have heard this is very typical. I actually felt like I gained nothing from this experience, with the exception of the good times I had acting as if I had just stumbled into this shark tank...even had a post asking for me to identify myself. Pretty humorous, yes, but increasing my skill at poker, nah.
So here's the idea. A group of 8 micro players, with ambition of making the 3/6 and higher games get together at 0.5/1 (I think any lower, and it turns into a "lagfest"). We invite 2 people who claim to be crushing the 3/6 or higher games. We play for some predetermined time limit, say 2 hours (any shorter would result in a far too small sample for the experts to judge our play). We could play at a site like Absolute Poker, only because it allows us to show our folded cards. We could then have running chat, led by the experts, of course, to explain how we screwed up, how we played well, and most importantly whether our play would be good at the higher limits. Are there leaks in our game which make money at the fish fest micros but might be exploited big time at the higher limits? At the end of the session, we all send our hand histories to the "experts" for a brief review and further critique advice on our play. Now where do these experts come from? I have no real idea who the experts are...you guys can help me out with that. Heck, anyone that considers themselves an expert, PM me, and you are in. I would like to have someone that is beating the 3/6 to 5/10 game for say 1.8-2 BB/100, but beggers can't be choosers. Also, with 8 of us playing, the expert would get to keep all that he wins from us, and I would be willing to throw 10 bucks his way for his time. If all 8 of us pitch in 10 bucks, the two experts get 40 bucks for two hours. Surely they could be making more than that by playing themselves, but guaranteed money, is well, guaranteed. B/c we are paying for the knowledge, I would expect the expert to play only our table, so he/she can give full attention.
Amyway, you guys get the idea. Is there any interest in a serious (not chip spewing) poker game amongst people that consider themselves good, and want to get better, but have some hesitations to learning by fire? And are there any experts willing to give us the lessons at the table, for a measly 20 bucks an hour, or if feeling extremely generous, for free. Or is this just the dumbest idea anyone has ever proposed?