3 hands, NO CONTENT [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

bozlax

05-09-2005, 09:46 PM

This was fun. I sit down at the table while my kids are eating supper, and get the following three hands:

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO calls, Button raises, 1 fold, Hero calls, UTG calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, MP2 calls, CO folds, Button calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (7.25 BB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, MP2 folds, Button folds, Hero calls.

River: (9.25 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 11.25 BB

Villan flips AK, we split the pot. The two idiots that folded on the turn start screaming about what an idiot I am to call down when he's clearly got an ace. I remain silent.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, 3 folds, MP3 calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, UTG calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (7 SB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls, MP3 folds.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls.

River: (6.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB

UTG doesn't show J/images/graemlins/spade.gif8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, and I hear a smattering of, "Lucksack!" More silence from me.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (7 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif. UTG posts a blind of $0.5.
2 folds, MP2 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, BB calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
BB bets, MP2 folds, Hero raises, BB calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls.

River: (9.75 BB) K/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls.

Final Pot: 13.75 BB

The coup de grace. BB (UTG from last hand) didn't show A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif for two pair, and says, "OMG. How lucky can you be?" I decide to not push my luck and leave the table, so I say, "Really lucky, I guess. It's not every day that I run into somebody stupid enough to call raises and bet back into me 4 times in a row with second pair." I heard his teeth crack as he ground them together.

3 hands, 429.29BB/100. I didn't even manage to get another table started.

Ianco15

05-09-2005, 09:49 PM

I don't why you're calling the flop on hand 1.

Entity

05-09-2005, 09:49 PM

I think your turn play in #1 sucks. #2 and #3 are fine but I don't get why you A) said anything or B) left the table.

Rob

bozlax

05-09-2005, 09:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't why you're calling the flop on hand 1.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm getting 13-1 with overcards, closing the action on a non-coordinated flop. You'd fold?

ArturiusX

05-09-2005, 09:57 PM

The smooth call by the preflop raiser would worry me into thinking my outs aren't good.

Ianco15

05-09-2005, 09:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't why you're calling the flop on hand 1.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm getting 13-1 with overcards, closing the action on a non-coordinated flop. You'd fold?

[/ QUOTE ]
Flop call is marginal with only overs which easily could be dominated, but I guess you're getting the right price. I would have folded the flop, anyway. Turn call is ridiculous though.

bozlax

05-09-2005, 10:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think your turn play in #1 sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I'm not real proud of that, except in a results-oriented kind of way. I did have some past hands on Villan, tho, and felt it was likely he was being aggro with an ace, so my 6 outs to top pair might be good. Laggy old me, I know, but I would have dropped it UI to a river bet.

[ QUOTE ]
...I don't get why you A) said anything or B) left the table.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

I chirped because I was leaving, I was leaving because my kids started throwing food at each other. I suppose I also chirped because I was irritated at having to leave to go clean up flung rice.

JohnEPark

05-09-2005, 10:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't why you're calling the flop on hand 1.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm getting 13-1 with overcards, closing the action on a non-coordinated flop. You'd fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would fold on the flop in about a millisecond. If I somehow hit the wrong button and called I would then take my time with the mouse and make sure I folded the turn. You are behind any ace, any king, and drawing to 6 possible outs to win outright where even if you hit one of them, you are possibly behind a higher kicker.

bozlax

05-09-2005, 10:05 PM

Ian, as I explained to Rob, I did have a read on the guy that made me think he was being aggro with an ace. Second, note the header where it says, "NO CONTENT." This posting was purely for entertainment value, and was not intended to be analyzed.

So, if ridiculing my marginal turn call in the first hand entertains you, then I suppose it has served its purpose. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

Ianco15

05-09-2005, 10:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Ian, as I explained to Rob, I did have a read on the guy that made me think he was being aggro with an ace. Second, note the header where it says, "NO CONTENT." This posting was purely for entertainment value, and was not intended to be analyzed.

So, if ridiculing my marginal turn call in the first hand entertains you, then I suppose it has served its purpose. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

This is an advice forum. Post hands and people give you advice. I wasn't ridiculing anything.

Here's some further advice on the hand. Assuming your read was correct and villan had an ace, why doesn't he have AQ or AJ and have you dominated? Also, would villan play KK or QQ or JJ differently than this? One of the other callers could easily have AQ, AJ, KJ, KQ.

@bsolute_luck

05-09-2005, 10:13 PM

irishpint

05-09-2005, 10:13 PM

Here is why you dont fold the turn in hand one:
Outs: 2 nines, 2 fives, 3 jacks, 3 Queens. If the opponent is riding an ace, looking to go 9955A he'll be mighty pissed when you show QQ99J or JJ99Q, etc. You get it? Sure, he could have a 5 or a 9, but we're saying he doesn't- under the gun you wouldnt play anything with a 5 but 55, so thats one hand. And A9 is possible, but with 3 on the board VERY unlikey, so I think your outs are almost always good here.

milesdyson

05-09-2005, 10:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Here is why you dont fold the turn in hand one:
Outs: 2 nines, 2 fives, 3 jacks, 3 Queens. If the opponent is riding an ace, looking to go 9955A he'll be mighty pissed when you show QQ99J or JJ99Q, etc. You get it? Sure, he could have a 5 or a 9, but we're saying he doesn't- under the gun you wouldnt play anything with a 5 but 55, so thats one hand. And A9 is possible, but with 3 on the board VERY unlikey, so I think your outs are almost always good here.

[/ QUOTE ]
1. You're counting outs to split as full outs.
2. You're completely disregarding the chance that hero is drawing dead on the turn.

irishpint

05-09-2005, 10:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Here is why you dont fold the turn in hand one:
Outs: 2 nines, 2 fives, 3 jacks, 3 Queens. If the opponent is riding an ace, looking to go 9955A he'll be mighty pissed when you show QQ99J or JJ99Q, etc. You get it? Sure, he could have a 5 or a 9, but we're saying he doesn't- under the gun you wouldnt play anything with a 5 but 55, so thats one hand. And A9 is possible, but with 3 on the board VERY unlikey, so I think your outs are almost always good here.

[/ QUOTE ]
1. You're counting outs to split as full outs.
2. You're completely disregarding the chance that hero is drawing dead on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Doesn't it mention the possibility of a 9 or a 5 up above? Yes the 9 and 5's are splits. How do you count those- it's certainly better than losing it all.

milesdyson

05-09-2005, 10:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Here is why you dont fold the turn in hand one:
Outs: 2 nines, 2 fives, 3 jacks, 3 Queens. If the opponent is riding an ace, looking to go 9955A he'll be mighty pissed when you show QQ99J or JJ99Q, etc. You get it? Sure, he could have a 5 or a 9, but we're saying he doesn't- under the gun you wouldnt play anything with a 5 but 55, so thats one hand. And A9 is possible, but with 3 on the board VERY unlikey, so I think your outs are almost always good here.

[/ QUOTE ]
1. You're counting outs to split as full outs.
2. You're completely disregarding the chance that hero is drawing dead on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Doesn't it mention the possibility of a 9 or a 5 up above? Yes the 9 and 5's are splits. How do you count those- it's certainly better than losing it all.

[/ QUOTE ]
You can't even count them has half outs, because not every time one hits are you going to split. I'd say make those 4 outs into 1 or 1.5 in this hand. There is some non-zero chance that you're drawing dead, and if you aren't drawing dead, then they are worth 2 total outs.

Entity

05-09-2005, 10:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Here is why you dont fold the turn in hand one:
Outs: 2 nines, 2 fives, 3 jacks, 3 Queens. If the opponent is riding an ace, looking to go 9955A he'll be mighty pissed when you show QQ99J or JJ99Q, etc. You get it? Sure, he could have a 5 or a 9, but we're saying he doesn't- under the gun you wouldnt play anything with a 5 but 55, so thats one hand. And A9 is possible, but with 3 on the board VERY unlikey, so I think your outs are almost always good here.

[/ QUOTE ]
1. You're counting outs to split as full outs.
2. You're completely disregarding the chance that hero is drawing dead on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Doesn't it mention the possibility of a 9 or a 5 up above? Yes the 9 and 5's are splits. How do you count those- it's certainly better than losing it all.

[/ QUOTE ]

How much are 9's or 5's worth when he's holding TT, JJ, QQ, KK, or AA?

Rob

Buckmulligan

05-09-2005, 10:42 PM

Hand 1:
Fold turn

bozlax

05-09-2005, 10:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
How much are 9's or 5's worth when he's holding TT, JJ, QQ, KK, or AA?

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

The same as the number of preflop raises he put in. Look, I'm sorry for not including my read, but I really didn't want to get into an involved discussion of the hands. So: Villan is a sLAG, he PFRs big PPs from any position, and loves broadway cards. I was convinced by his lack of a PFR that he either had a middle PP or was playing overcards. Yes, my QJs was dominated by most of his overcard holding possibilities, but a) it was pretty much an equal chance that he had a middle PP, and b) that's poker, and since I was holding my 2 cards that reduced the chance that he was holding onto one of them as well. That's all it was.

Oh, and I was distracted by my kids.

KaiShin

05-09-2005, 11:14 PM

I don't think you should post hands if you're not ready to have an in-depth discussion of them.

These guys will pick anything apart (including me) /images/graemlins/grin.gif