Valuing money too much?

[pufferfish]

I've never worried about becoming a compulsive gambler because I always saw the money value in any wager I made.

I'd go to Las Vegas or Reno and play BJ, craps and horses. I could always stop when I hit my limit for the day.

As a new poker player I think this is hurting me. I'm always aware of my stack size and often won't make the move I think I should because of the money involved (and this is micros, no less).

When I play tournaments it is better because I think "the entrance fee is already spent". But, I have this left over attitude from ring games that still keeps me from playing the way (as best I can as a rookie) I think I should.

It seems to me that if I could get away from this and think of my stack as a tool, I would do better.

Any suggestions on how to accomplish this?

Thank you in advance.

[Jeffage]

Well, I would say...make sure you are playing a limit you are financially comfortable with. If you can't afford the limit, you will start to think of your chips for their monetary value rather than the weapons they are. Just think of all poker as maximizing expectation...if a move is profitable, do it..don't worry about the money you have on the table. For example, if you've been getting beat, don't hesitate to raise a hand if it gives you the best chance to win..you are trying to make positive expectation plays..thats the professional attitude. Check out Theory of Poker, HPFAP, etc. It's not money till you go to the cage.

Jeff

[bernie]

if youre going to be a winning player, you better lose the monetary value of your chips.

when i tried to teach a bud BJ, the first rule ii told em was to be able to take a chip, whatever size, $1, 5, 25...and be able to throw it over their shoulder and not think twice.

once you buy in, try figuring that it's not cash til you cash out. figure your money is gone for good. do whatever you can to get the monetary value out of your mind.

b

[marbles]

I can definitely relate... This syndrome is basically the only reason I never go above 1-2 online in ring games.

Some players can get past this, but maybe some just can't. I've never enjoyed playing at higher limits because the money screws up my play, so I don't do it. I recommend playing within (or even below) your means and focusing on playing your best game.

Incidentally, this syndrome is a major reason I got interested in online tourneys in the first place. It's a great way to get an hour of quality competition (even profitable 1-2 games can get a little boring) with very little cash on the line. And, of course, you can even make a few bucks along the way if you can play.

[ResidentParanoid]

Make sure your bankroll is plenty big. I think of the money at the table as just the "tip of the iceberg", with plenty more to back it up. If I burn through a couple of buy-ins, I know there's plenty more to back it up, if I'm playing well, and the game is good. And, of course, if I get short stacked at a table, I re-buy, never allowing an all-in. Having a relatively tiny stack in front of me makes for bad play.

[bad beetz]

I do this too, and yes, it is bad for your play. My friend constantly stacks and counts and organizes his chips, know exactly how many he has at all times.

If you keep a bankroll devoted to poker in cash, and ONLY use it for poker, and I mean be strict (you order a coke? Pay for it out of cash out of you pocket, not with chips) after it grows you will feel more comfortable playing as the game is meant to be played, using your chips as weapons and not playing with scared money. The only down side is the absence of interest that that money could accrue, but I think it's still worth it.

If this is online, then I can't help.

Another thing, buy in for huge before you sit down, it helps psychologically

I understand and have the same thoughts about cash value of chips. I therefore made the decision early on not to play cash poker only tournys. When I buy in I view it as paying for entertainment with the chance of winning some cash if my play is good enough. I usually have 1 buy in to a large $ tourny and when I'm busted, I'm busted. After buy in I never think of cash value anymore just chips. At least with a tourny you buy in and are liberated from any worries about cash values and you can't risk losing the ranch in the heat of a game.

[pufferfish]

I play $.50/$1 /forums/images/icons/smile.gif at Paradise. Part of the problem may be that my bankroll is not even 300 BB (255 BB right now). I'm finally starting to grow it and when it's up to 300/400 BB maybe I will stop playing "so scared".

At the very least, I'm probably the kind of person that's going to need twice the BR (600 vs. 300 BB?) to feel comfortable playing a particular limit.

I'm at the point were my bankroll is "for poker". When I take money to play, in my mind it is already spent. I just can't always carry that through at the table.

Interesting thing about tournaments is the use of "tournaments chips". Funny how I can toss around K's of TC's and not be bothered by it. If it was real money I wouldn't be able to play for the sweat on my hands. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

Thanks again.

My suggestion is to give up craps and other pit games where there is a house advantage. It is quite ironic that you worry about your stack size in a micro game because you know that, specifically in craps, when your bets are spread all over, it feels like being shot when the dreaded seven rolls out. You're playing in a game with the odds heavily stacked against you. Why not stick to poker where, you can be a better player than your opponents, then, the odds will be in your favor - unless, of course, it is for your sheer enjoyment knowing that you'll eventually lose. I should know - I was a crapshooter once and gave it up and now sticking to poker.

Just my two cents.

[pufferfish]

I haven't been to a casino in a while, and have never played poker in one. I am practicing online for a trip in the next few months. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

I think it is also funny that I don't mind blowing money on the pit games, but get cheap with my poker money.

It's like the money I spend in the pit is for pure entertainment and I expect to lose it. But, my poker money is more like a capital investment. I expect to build on it. Yikes, I probably need a shrink!

Hi Bruno,

I also used the casino pit for entertainment and really got a good run of adrenaline when I used to hit the hard 4's with a green chip bet coupled with winning the pass line with a couple of black ones and walk away with 2 Gs. But in the long run, I realized that I was one of the Don Quixotes fighting the unwinnable battles against the windmills, found it to be not entertaining at all and quit cold. I then started to play HE and study it aspiring to be a good player - not necessarily to become a pro but to be good enough to get the odds on my side and be a winning player.

You said that you haven't played in a B&M atmosphere. Maybe this is what you need - to experience the exhiliration of winning a nice size pot with your 2-outer (with the correct pot-odds, of course) and see the faces of your wishful-thinking opponents as you stack the chips.

Now, that's entertainment to me!

GL on your first B&M game. /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

[pufferfish]

ID4,

Thanks for the responses, and everyone elses as well.

I'm really looking forward to the casino experience!

[Vehn]

Its something that will go away with experience. Eventually, if you're dedicated enough, you'll begin to win consistently (if you're not already), and like a lightbulb going off you'll realize your time and talent is worth more than the small amount of money you bring in for the large amount of big bets, and you'll realize that playing winning poker for the sake of playing winning poker isn't enough to keep your interest.