I hate calling, but...

[dfscott]

...who calls this?

- No particular read on the pusher
- this is a 33
- Blinds just went up

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG (t2039)
MP (t1570)
Button (t551)
Hero (t820)
BB (t3020)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.

Folded to button, who raises all-in. Fold or push?

[Tilt]

In the hopes that you'll read this before your timer winds down...

DON'T CALL! FOLD! DON'T CALL!

Is it too late? Did you call?

[swarm]

I think pushing is completely acceptable here. You have little folding equity and you are 5 handed, you are going to have to push in the next 2 hands anyway. Button is just as desperate and could easily be pushing with any face card.

Sometimes you just have to take a stand. I would push but I wouldn't be psyched about it.

[Unparagoned]

[ QUOTE ]
...who calls this?

- No particular read on the pusher
- this is a 33
- Blinds just went up

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG (t2039)
MP (t1570)
Button (t551)
Hero (t820)
BB (t3020)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.

Folded to button, who raises all-in. Fold or push?

[/ QUOTE ]

I could be wrong, but the information I most want in order to answer this question is what I can expect from UTG and MP (not on this hand obviously). If they will gladly fold their blinds to me, then I am going to fold. If they are loosish and will probably call me (the small stack), then I am going to take my chance and try to get big here. You have managed to preserve yourself some FE, why throw it away when you will be on the button and CO the next two hands, unless you think the blinds will want to call you?

[Jibbs]

I'm on a mission to keep people from calling all-ins with KQ. Mainly because no matter what I have in my hand lately KQ seems to bust me /images/graemlins/mad.gif.

But to be honest as far as this hand goes I think a push is fine. Button could be on very wide range of cards and at worst he picked up AK at the ideal time but more likely A-x, pocket pair or complete steal attempt. You are running out of bullets and it probably time to gamble.

[swarm]

Along with that question should be how the smallstack got so small. Has he been pushing or has he been blinded to death because he's a tight ass.

If he's been aggressive and recently got busted on push or call then i'm more likely to push. If he's been tight waiting and waiting on his hand then i fold.

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]
Along with that question should be how the smallstack got so small. Has he been pushing or has he been blinded to death because he's a tight ass.

If he's been aggressive and recently got busted on push or call then i'm more likely to push. If he's been tight waiting and waiting on his hand then i fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

To be honest, the answer to those questions are "I don't know." I'd been multi-tabling and hadn't really kept up with that.

[Tilt]

[ QUOTE ]
Button could be on very wide range of cards and at worst he picked up AK at the ideal time but more likely A-x, pocket pair or complete steal attempt. You are running out of bullets and it probably time to gamble.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree completely. Button's range to me is a PP or an ace. You are calling (call it a push if you want) and behind 90% of the time. Even when you are ahead you are unlikely very far ahead. You have time to pick a better spot.

If Button were coming from UTG I would expand his range. But I think he knows he has 3 deals left to make a move. On the first one, he pushes any ace or PP. On the second, its any two broadways. On the third, its queen high or better. I don't think he is pushing trash into the big stacks BB. He expects a showdown.

[Phil Van Sexton]

Push.

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Button could be on very wide range of cards and at worst he picked up AK at the ideal time but more likely A-x, pocket pair or complete steal attempt. You are running out of bullets and it probably time to gamble.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree completely. Button's range to me is a PP or an ace. You are calling (call it a push if you want) and behind 90% of the time. Even when you are ahead you are unlikely very far ahead. You have time to pick a better spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

You think button is really that tight with less than 3BB? I think that position is critical for him here (of course, no telling if he knows that). If I were him, I'd much rather push QT here than AT UTG.

[swarm]

Tilt why in the hell do you put him on such a solid holding???

This is the smallstacks last chance to even have a remote chance of stealing blinds or at the very least getting in with the best of it in a headsup situation with K6 or Q10 hoping that the blinds have trash hands.

Believe me in this situation i'm pushing any face card, any suited somewhat connected cards like 97s. In this situation button realizes to have a chance at winning he has to push this hand or one of the next 2 hands.

As I stated earlier if you have a read and this guy has been dying the slow death then you can put him on a stronger hand and can fold

[Scuba Chuck]

I did some math a few days ago that showed that you need 1.75:1 or greater pot odds for calling (pushing here) with KQs. I can't imagine it being that much different with KQo. The problem you have here is you can now put a "smart" big stack on a very wide range of hands for him to call with. Including almost any pair, any suited connector, one gap suited connectors, etc. And perhaps any Ax suited. Big stack will be getting 2.53:1 pot odds to play this hand. (For example, let's assume small stack has A9o (or an underpair), then villain would only need to win 28% of the time with a hand like 87s - which is precisely 2.53:1 pot odds).

That being said, you're hand here is offering 1.88:1 pot odds for you to play with a monster stack behind. If you fold, he is likely to get called by the big stack (unless you have another read). Furthermore, no matter what the outcome of this hand if you fold, you will be the new small stack.

A read on the small stack is not nearly as important as your read on the big stack. If you're fairly certain he'll fold, I like this push.

Interesting hand, thanks for posting.
Scuba

[Newt_Buggs]

two great points brought up in this thread so far:
1. If UTG, UTG+1 are tight folding here still gives you plenty of FE on pushing
2. but, pushing here gives you great odds if the BB will fold.

In reference to Scubas post, I personally don't see many people calling heros push here with a hand like 78s. Just from personal experience the average player at the 30s (i'm assuming this is either a 30 or a 20) doesn't have a scientific grasp of calculating pot odds and will get intimidated by two all ins. Personally, I push because of this and the wide range of hands the button could have. Yes, he could have A10o in which case you are a 6% something underdog, but I also see almost every player pushing K10o utg here as well. Basically, I don't need to work out the math to see that its not a question of whether pushing is profitable, but whether folding and trying to steal later is more profitable

[AA suited]

it's +ev to call if you put button's range as <22+, any Ace,KTs+,KJo+,QJs> or worse.

[Nottom]

Your too shortstacked to really wait for anything better.

You're getting good odds and likely have the best hand, I'd push.

[willie]

i think this is a call.....

blinds are gettin big, you have a pretty good hand indeed.

button can be pushing a hand that you have CRUSHED....or one that has you crushed

i think i gambool.

[John Hurst]

I call and pray he doesn't have AK or AQ. Odds are too good and there is little chance of sneaking into the top 3.