Lead or check "made hands" on the turn?

[Paradigm]

Getting used to protecting somewhat vulnerable hands, but a bit confused when extracting value from monsters

Paradise Poker 1/2 Hold'em (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP calls, Button calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets</font>, Button calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets</font>, Button folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP calls.

River: (9.25 BB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP calls.

Final Pot: 11.25 BB


I'm going to add another hand here, because I just don't know, when you're playing heads-up or shorthanded, if I should lead or check these hands, particularly when the other player shows aggression.

Paradise Poker 1/2 Hold'em (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, MP calls, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero checks.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, UTG folds, MP folds, <font color="#CC3333">Button caps</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.75 BB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls.

River: (8.75 BB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls.

Final Pot: 10.75 BB

[7ontheline]

Um. . .you know you don't actually have the nuts, right?

[billyjex]

i bet flop.

[Paradigm]

yes, sorry, i meant nut straight. hard to post hand samples and play at the same time. i'm not that stupid.

[Paradigm]

billy, do you bet the turn?

[7ontheline]

I also bet flop. If you bet the flop, you must bet the turn.

I don't like trying for the checkraise on the turn - if the guy does have a flush, you're boned unless you draw out. Any hands you beat may check because of the scary board. Don't let the A /images/graemlins/club.gif get a free card.

[spamuell]

In the second hand, you should bet the flop and check-raise the river.

[tizim]

I don't bet the flop in hand 1. With that board, you are very very rarely going to pick up the pot with a flop/turn bet. Plus, it's likely you'll get raised on the flop/turn, and you'll have to call since you have so many outs.

Whether or not I bet the turn depends on the opponent. Passive opponents will usually check behind on that turn card, as a 9TJQ 3-flush board vs a pfraiser is damn scary to a passive player, unless he has a K. Against your average non-thinking 1/2 LAG, I think the check-raise will work often enough for it to be profitable.

I bet the flop in hand 2. Since there's no preflop raiser, you don't know where the bet will come from or if it will even come. In fact, in situations like these, you very often have a player from late position betting, and if you check-raise him, you'll blast away the entire field and isolate the late position bettor, who was likely stealing or betting a marginal hand. With the way you played it and button's capping, I check-raise the turn unless he's very aggressive and I think he'll raise me if I lead out so I can 3-bet.

[ QUOTE ]
In the second hand, you should bet the flop and check-raise the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't check-raise the river. His line looks very much like K5 or an overplayed Kx. There's no way he has a boat since he didn't raise the turn. He could possibly have 68 or 64 and checking might induce a bluff, but I think given his hand range and the strength you showed, he's checking behind more often than not.

[gvibes]

wrong forum post in micros

[Surfbullet]

[ QUOTE ]
wrong forum post in micros

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry bro, this is HUSH. You can get help here in most any shorthanded game - be it the .5/1 or 100/200 - we don't send ppl to the micros.

Surf

[TStoneMBD]

i bet the flop in hand 1. you are playing small stakes which should be a passive game. its unlikely you will be raised and since you have to pay a bet to see the turn/river anyway, you might as well generate some folding/deception equity.

however, after you checked the flop in hand 1, there is no reason to lead the turn. checkraising is much better.

in hand 2, i will mix this up a little bit. i really dont think there is a whole lot of difference in ev in whether you lead or checkraise. however, once villain caps this flop, since there is no flush draw out there, it makes no sense to lead the turn. go for the checkraise there instead.

[spamuell]

in hand 2, i will mix this up a little bit. i really dont think there is a whole lot of difference in ev in whether you lead or checkraise. however, once villain caps this flop, since there is no flush draw out there, it makes no sense to lead the turn. go for the checkraise there instead.

Don't you think it makes more sense to bet the turn in the hope of 3-betting because if your opponent does just call then everything you said still applies on the river and you can check-raise then instead?

[TStoneMBD]

when i was in the low stakes games, these river checkraises never worked for me. i was about 0 for 30 with them. even players with 3AF dont fall for it, it seems. maybe it was just poor timing or bad luck, but i wouldnt recommend that people go making river checkraises in these limits after showing so much strength unless they had a specific read. villain clearly has a king here. he didnt raise preflop. his hand cannot be that strong. he capped the flop and you are still betting into him on the turn. that shows a great amount of strength. i dont think you will be raised anywhere else in the hand.