OESD implied odds example [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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bkholdem

05-08-2005, 10:43 PM

Here is a hand I played tonight. I'm posting it as an example to demonstrate the value of implied odds. (There was a thread going today questioning calling pot size bets with draws). I didn't have to call a pot size bet (which I do not think I would have done in this case due to the villians smallish stack). But facing the actual flop bet he made I was happy to call.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG+1 ($65.72)
UTG+2 ($62.54)
MP1 ($50.5)
MP2 :#A500AF(Villian)/ ($44.25)
MP3 ($35.45)
Hero ($90.6)
Button ($50.85)
SB ($56.28)
BB ($78.7)
UTG ($77.75)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
3 folds, MP1 calls $0.50, MP2 :#A500AF(Villian)/ raises to $3, 1 fold, Hero calls $3, 3 folds, MP1 folds.

Flop: ($7.25) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Villian bets $4, Hero calls $4.

Turn: ($15.25) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Villian bets $4, Hero raises to $12, Villian calls $33.25 (All-In), Hero calls $25.25.

River: ($89.75) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $89.75

Results in white below: 
Villian has As Ad (one pair, aces).
Hero has 6c 6s (straight, eight high).
Outcome: Hero wins $89.75.

creedofhubris

05-09-2005, 12:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Here is a hand I played tonight. I'm posting it as an example to demonstrate the value of implied odds.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're posting it to demonstrate the value of playing against complete morons.

A 1-card straight draw is pretty transparent when it hits, and you usually don't get paid this well.

bkholdem

05-09-2005, 12:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Here is a hand I played tonight. I'm posting it as an example to demonstrate the value of implied odds.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're posting it to demonstrate the value of playing against complete morons.

A 1-card straight draw is pretty transparent when it hits, and you usually don't get paid this well.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would appreciate a lesson in how to get implied odds when playing highly skilled players. Enlighten me.

PoBoy321

05-09-2005, 12:41 AM

Implied odds come when you have a chance of making a best hand and your opponent has a chance of making a very good 2nd best hand.

One pair on this board isn't a very good hand, and unless you're against a moron, like you were, you won't get paid off very often.

ZimbuTheMonkey

05-09-2005, 12:47 AM

I agree with hubris and Poboy. Implied odds for hitting an OESD with four to a straight on the board are usually very low, only the fishiest of players will give you much action when you hit.

This is why I give less importance to these draws, when they hit, I don't get paid off as much as a regular OESD.

"I would appreciate a lesson in how to get implied odds when playing highly skilled players. Enlighten me. "

There's really no reason to be sarcastic and defensive when being offered advice.

TheWorstPlayer

05-09-2005, 01:22 AM

Agreed. This demonstrates implied odds of playing retards who will bet half pot on super-scary flops and then back an overpair with their stacks with four to a straight on the board. You would have to be UNlucky NOT to have a set, straight, or two pair on this board. What an idiot. Against normal people this flop call is bad because if you hit it is a check/fold.

Edit: Only meant it was bad for implied odds. It is still fine, IMO, because a) it looks like he has AK with that weak bet and b) you should be able to steal pretty easily on the turn even if you are not ahead already.

BZ_Zorro

05-09-2005, 01:31 AM

Also note you have an extra two outs to a set (since he likely has overcards - no straight). and (stack size):(flop call) ratio are 10:1. I would have made the same call.

ZimbuTheMonkey

05-09-2005, 01:43 AM

Oh just to clarify, I wasn't critisizing his play, just his argument about implied odds.

bkholdem

05-09-2005, 06:45 AM

I appreciate the point about this scary board not being a good example of implied odds.

I posted this as it was the only oesd I had played last night.

I was operating under the assumption that there was a poster here that was operating under the rigid assumption that it is never ok to call pot size bets on the flop with draws.

That is why I prefaced the post the way I did. Creed choose to snip that part out when making his point. I appreciate the point he made and think it is a valuable one. I did not appreciate the hand being taken out of the context in which it was meant.

Jazza

05-09-2005, 06:53 AM

for all those who think they can't milk an opponent with AA when a 4 straight is down, that's when you can call the flop with the straight draw, and also sometimes call with nothing but 'bluffing outs' to take it away on the turn

boondockst

05-09-2005, 07:23 AM

Wow everything i wanted to say was said already.

I think more often than getting paid off by AA you will get reverse implied odds as 62o splits the pot and you lose net money to the rake. 66 on a 578 flop is NOT powerhouse in a cash game. Maybe not to some morons, but your hand is painfully obvious. And when you do turn your 6, you're screwed.

Although playing against morons is ALWAYS good implied odds.