* * * Read This If You Feel So Inclined To * * *

[Emmitt2222]

Well, I know noone liked the whole "Jesus is your Savior" thread spam, but in it some people mentioned that they were practicing Catholic/Christians. I just thought it would be interesting to see how many people on these forums actually do practice their faith, whatever it may be [seems like its almost scary to say it out loud here]. Is anyone really harcore about their faith? Obviously this is something that begs to be shot down in these type of forums where 75% of everyone is Atheist/agnostic, but I was just wondering. I personally go to an intense Catholic school, attend daily mass, like to pray the rosary and love my Pope. Sounds crazy to anyone not into it as to why I would go to such lengths and yet I think its all worth it. What do any of you do to practice your faith in practical terms [prayers, services, service projects]? Testify!

[tbach24]

All this time I thought your avatar and location were tougne in cheek /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[SpearsBritney]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, I know noone liked the whole "Jesus is your Savior" thread spam

[/ QUOTE ]

Was that you?

[thegrammarnazi]

[ QUOTE ]
Is anyone really harcore about their faith?

[/ QUOTE ]

Is anyone really hardcore about his faith?

[CardSharpCook]

Hey Emmitt, I don't even know for sure if I am a Christian, but God is central to my life. It does seem like these boards are excessively agnostic/atheist. Only reason I'm answering this thread is that I love being in the minority. Here's hoping that BlueWater doesn't start spamming me with PMs for posting in this thread.

CSC

[shadow29]

I'll grant your premise re: 75% agnostic/atheist if you'll grant mine: A significant majority of posters here are of above average intelligence.

Correlation?

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]
I'll grant your premise re: 75% agnostic/atheist if you'll grant mine: A significant majority of posters here are of above average intelligence.

Correlation?

[/ QUOTE ]

Bingo.

[CCass]

Depends on how you define hardcore. I am fervent in my beliefs, I try to do what the bible teaches, I am at church every time the doors are open, etc...

Am I perfect, no. Do I strive to live a good life, yes. Will I beat you over the head with a bible if you disagree with me, no.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
I'll grant your premise re: 75% agnostic/atheist if you'll grant mine: A significant majority of posters here are of above average intelligence.

Correlation?

[/ QUOTE ]

Knowledge often turns into doubt though.

[Emmitt2222]

Honest opinion, I will not think any less of you as I think you are a great poster, do you think I am a sucker or more stupid for believing in this stuff? Honestly I would like to know what people think because I have heard this correlation on these forums before. Do you think studying theology like I do is just leading me further into stupidity [and is this a loaded question because Im not quite sure]?

[Blarg]

The interesting part to me is how easy it is for people to love and sometimes essentially worship and take as divine authority whatever interchangeable unknown insta-pope get selected for them by people they've never heard of behind closed doors.

A sort of combination of sad, funny, and creepy.

Not that it's not your right to take everything at face value, do what you're told, and dismiss it from your conscience. Heck, people have killed for the right to surrender their logic, freedom, and individuality for thousands of years. Way to go.

[SpearsBritney]

[ QUOTE ]
Honest opinion, I will not think any less of you as I think you are a great poster, do you think I am a sucker or more stupid for believing in this stuff? Honestly I would like to know what people think because I have heard this correlation on these forums before. Do you think studying theology like I do is just leading me further into stupidity [and is this a loaded question because Im not quite sure]?

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutly not, I only wish I could have faith in a higher power. It brings with it poise, courage and confidence. Reality is entirely subjective anyway. If you believe god exists, than he/she/it exists.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'll grant your premise re: 75% agnostic/atheist if you'll grant mine: A significant majority of posters here are of above average intelligence.

Correlation?

[/ QUOTE ]

Knowledge often turns into doubt though.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure why we're seeing so much religion in a poker forum lately, but sometimes I wonder, especially when my chips are getting low and the blinds are coming around, "What would Jesus bluff?"

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'll grant your premise re: 75% agnostic/atheist if you'll grant mine: A significant majority of posters here are of above average intelligence.

Correlation?

[/ QUOTE ]

Knowledge often turns into doubt though.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure why we're seeing so much religion in a poker forum lately, but sometimes I wonder, especially when my chips are getting low and the blinds are coming around, "What would Jesus bluff?"

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not religious at all. I just think to dismiss the idea that there is a God because a bunch of smart people do is really idiotic.

[Emmitt2222]

[ QUOTE ]
The interesting part to me is how easy it is for people to love and sometimes essentially worship and take as divine authority whatever interchangeable unknown insta-pope get selected for them by people they've never heard of behind closed doors.

A sort of combination of sad, funny, and creepy.

Not that it's not your right to take everything at face value, do what you're told, and dismiss it from your conscience. Heck, people have killed for the right to surrender their logic, freedom, and individuality for thousands of years. Way to go.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do know things about the current Pope and went out of my way to find out about him after he was elected so I did not automatically assume he would be an amazing pope because I recognize that humans fail and popes have done horrible things with the power they were granted. I also am suppose to be obediant, however, so I will follow what he says as long as it is not sinful.

I do not take my faith in the Pope or the Church at face value whatso ever, thats the reason I study Theology to understand more deeply why I believe this is the correct choice. I don't believe that I should just take everything that is thrown at me and accept it, but at the same time there must be an element of faith and belief or else it wouldn't be religion. Your mind can't assent to the unknown, it can only believe. If you have never met David Sklansky then you are not completely sure that he exists, you do not have certain proof so you must have some amount of faith. I have not seen God in the beatific vision, but I have gained some slight forms of proof, enough to make me believe.

I also believe that people are most free and individual when they truly believe because they are not pandering to what the world believes is cool and for the most part are actually going against the grain. I am free to express myself because I do not fear what other people will think, as long as I know it is not wrong and will not hurt others around me.

I hope this helps in some way to explain what I believe. I know that people with in the Church have done wrong in the past and I apologize for that as did JPII to the world, but I am not an extremist who kills for what I believe. I don't want to just go around and convert everyone, but I do in some way hope that everyone may at least understand my position, whether they disagree it or not. Thanks for reading this if you managed to get through it.

[jdl22]

When you say you love your Pope, are you referring specifically to the person that is currently the pope or simply to the position overall? In other words were you happy that he specifically was elected or would your reaction have been identical if someone else had been chosen? Just curious because all the catholics I know were rather unhappy that "the german shepherd" was chosen. The only person I know who was happy is a gay friend from Spain who wants the catholic church to be as far away from mainstream as possible so that its power is lessened.

I think most make the correlation statement because the majority of religions seem to ask the followers to believe and not to think. There are several cases where religious groups attempted to stop people from learning and studying things that ran contrary to their beliefs. When discussing religion with religious people, especially the annoying ones that cram it down your throat, they tend to not be able to make valid arguments for their side at all and seem not to have really thought it through. I'm familiar with no person who deeply studied the various religions before choosing one. Every religious person I've ever met believed first and then sought out supporting evidence. This is the wrong order. These things make me skeptical.

As for you, I don't know you so I can't say. I do know some people that are religious and seem to have thought it through (they still do suffer from having a prior however). Some of them are quite intelligent. I think that if you took two random people, one religious and one atheist, and did some accurate intelligence test the smart money would be placed on atheist. That doesn't mean that there aren't smart religious people, that you aren't smart, or that you will somehow become less smart by studying more religion. Similarly a random guy will beat a random girl in a race, but there are still several thousand women that can run faster than me.

[davelin]

I consider myself a Protestant who takes his faith pretty seriously.

[Blarg]

For most of Christianity's history, masses were conducted in Latin even though most worshippers could not speak it. This situation existed up through the last century and is even the present way things should be done, according to some folks. When the bible was first mass-produced via movable type, it was a crime to have it, as only priests and the ruling classes were thought worthy of direct biblical knowledge. When owning bibles became lawful, it became criminal to translate one from Latin, because the common people were thought fit only to be told what to think and to have religion interpreted for them.

Independent thought typically takes a subordinate role to belief in religion. Sometimes upon pain of death.

[CallMeIshmael]

Dominic,

as you are aware, yes, I am a practicing Catholic.

But... at the same time, I feel I am pretty open to/accepting of other religions/atheists/agnostics.

[Emmitt2222]

When I say I love the Pope I am refering to the position itself because I believe that it was given to the Church by Jesus Himself so it is a very awesome thing to have a man leading our Church here on earth and a heirarchy to ensure that we stay in line. I also love our new Pope Benedict XVI because he carries on many of the same things that JPII put into place and I feel he knows the Truth. If he were a crappy pope, would I personally like him? No, but I would respect him as long as he did not sin or lead his Church into sin. I don't know why your gay friend would like him because most liberals despise him for being so conservative.

In terms of people believing their religion and then studying it, this is most often the case, but I know for a fact that converts are some of the best Catholics I have ever known. Most of the ones I have know are very intelligent and studied their faith before, but then they started to notice something missing and they found it in the Catholic Church. Most of these people were Protestants of the people I know and a few of other religions. I don't know anyone who has studied most/all religions and then chosen though so I can't speak for that, I just know people have done a ton of research and then switched their beliefs. It takes a lot of humility to admit you were wrong for so long so its tough and I would like to believe if I was ever completely shown another way was correct I would switch.

For the atheist/religious race, I don't think it really works to talk about who is just flat out the smartest because people who are religious study more about God than they do about the world so atheists will have an advantage in knowing more about the material world like in science and math. I also think there are more atheists who become higher level thinkers. I personally think people like Augustine and Thomas Aquinas were so brilliant that you can't reject the fact that there have been some amazing minds in Catholicism. Eh, I'll admit this paragraph is not my strongest argument to date, but thats all I got on that issue of smartness, here I am lacking.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
When I say I love the Pope I am refering to the position itself because I believe that it was given to the Church by Jesus Himself so it is a very awesome thing to have a man leading our Church here on earth and a heirarchy to ensure that we stay in line. I also love our new Pope Benedict XVI because he carries on many of the same things that JPII put into place and I feel he knows the Truth. If he were a crappy pope, would I personally like him? No, but I would respect him as long as he did not sin or lead his Church into sin. I don't know why your gay friend would like him because most liberals despise him for being so conservative.


[/ QUOTE ]

The hard part to believe is not that you like the pope. That's sure no stunner. It's that you wouldn't automatically like anyone who was named pope, whether you liked him or not, or had ever heard of him or not. In other words, any random guy on the planet would be a shoo-in for your affection as pope. Maybe even a totally evil guy.

The hard thing to believe would be your not finding an excuse to not just justify but celebrate the selection of even the devil himself, as long as some church guys told you to.

[lorinda]

[ QUOTE ]
The hard thing to believe would be your not finding an excuse to not just justify but celebrate the selection of even the devil himself, as long as some church guys told you to.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oddly, I find this consistent.

If you're going to believe that your leader is elected thanks to the hand of God, then you have accept his decision otherwise the whole system is flawed.

If you have faith in the system in the first place, then it isn't flawed for the believer, so accepting the outcome is the logical conclusion.

Lori

[JoeC]

This is pretty much how I feel... and I can throw in that, for most people who don't go completely nuts with it, religion seems to have a good effect on people's lives. It just ain't happenin for me though.

[Slacker13]

Agnostic. 10% of my income goes to mutual funds, not a church.

[Fabian]

Emmitt I don't have anything to add to this discussion but I just want to say that you're the only believing person whose posts I really like and respect and always read with great interest. You're doing a great job explaining your thinking, unlike every other religious poster here, who for the most part just come across as ridiculous.

Thanks for all the interesting posts.

[Emmitt2222]

[quote[ The hard thing to believe would be your not finding an excuse to not just justify but celebrate the selection of even the devil himself, as long as some church guys told you to.

[/ QUOTE ]
I liked your thoughtful criticism up until this point. It really makes it seem like you are borderline attacking me because you have something against the Catholic Church. I believe that you may have missed me saying this:

[ QUOTE ]
If he were a crappy pope, would I personally like him? No, but I would respect him as long as he did not sin or lead his Church into sin.

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe, first and foremost the two foundations of my faith, tradition and Scripture. If the Pope is not jiving with those two things, such as killing people, I am not going to agree with him or like him at all. The person in the position of Pope does not come before my established faith. Many of the cardinals I would have only merely liked some and a few I don't like at all, Cardinal Law for example. I am not so wholly brainwashed with my faith as you think. I can still think for myself and make my own decisions.

[mmbt0ne]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:</font><hr />
Well, I know noone liked the whole "Jesus is your Savior" thread spam

[/ QUOTE ]

Was that you?

[/ QUOTE ]

This a horrible accusation, and absolutely impossible given what I know about the OP, and what you can see that he has posted in this thread.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The hard thing to believe would be your not finding an excuse to not just justify but celebrate the selection of even the devil himself, as long as some church guys told you to.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oddly, I find this consistent.

If you're going to believe that your leader is elected thanks to the hand of God, then you have accept his decision otherwise the whole system is flawed.

If you have faith in the system in the first place, then it isn't flawed for the believer, so accepting the outcome is the logical conclusion.

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. As you can tell, I'm not impressed with that system, and feel that loving your pope is a thoroughly unimpressive accomplishment and process, to say the least. Ironically lacking the very free will that Christianity likes to claim is central to its belief system.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
Dominic,

as you are aware, yes, I am a practicing Catholic.

But... at the same time, I feel I am pretty open to/accepting of other religions/atheists/agnostics.

[/ QUOTE ] me too, cept I don't really practice it much.

[Little Fishy]

correlation does no show causation

and i don't nec belive that most posters are of above average intelligence...

[SackUp]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The hard thing to believe would be your not finding an excuse to not just justify but celebrate the selection of even the devil himself, as long as some church guys told you to.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oddly, I find this consistent.

If you're going to believe that your leader is elected thanks to the hand of God, then you have accept his decision otherwise the whole system is flawed.

If you have faith in the system in the first place, then it isn't flawed for the believer, so accepting the outcome is the logical conclusion.

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

This is only mostly true though. B/c while Catholics believe that the Pope is chosen with divine inspiration, the pope is still a man and thus has free will.

So even though his selection is guided with divine intervention, that does not mean that the Pope is not susceptible to error or to even be lead astray by temptation.

This is not a reflection on the church's teachings, it is a reflection of the fallibility of man.

[Little Fishy]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm familiar with no person who deeply studied the various religions before choosing one

[/ QUOTE ]

My dad did this he was raised attending a unitarian universalist church... he always had beliefs but he never had guidance... when i was in 8th grade he became catholic and now he's in a deaconate program... I agree with you that it's uncommon, but it definitly happens...

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
[quote[ The hard thing to believe would be your not finding an excuse to not just justify but celebrate the selection of even the devil himself, as long as some church guys told you to.

[/ QUOTE ]
I liked your thoughtful criticism up until this point. It really makes it seem like you are borderline attacking me because you have something against the Catholic Church. I believe that you may have missed me saying this:

[ QUOTE ]
If he were a crappy pope, would I personally like him? No, but I would respect him as long as he did not sin or lead his Church into sin.

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe, first and foremost the two foundations of my faith, tradition and Scripture. If the Pope is not jiving with those two things, such as killing people, I am not going to agree with him or like him at all. The person in the position of Pope does not come before my established faith. Many of the cardinals I would have only merely liked some and a few I don't like at all, Cardinal Law for example. I am not so wholly brainwashed with my faith as you think. I can still think for myself and make my own decisions.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not positing you and the church as equivalent; further, I don't think the process of selecting the pope and the reaction of the faithful to him to comprise the whole of the faith or even the most important part of it. Personally, I think it's one of the most bungled parts of it, though, and that's what I'm commenting on.

To be sure, I certainly have nothing against you personally. I don't even know you, and you seem unusually well spoken, thoughtful, and non-crazy for a person so religious they would want to post about it on a poker web site, of all places.

I do not, however, believe that people always say what they believe, no matter what the subject, and especially regarding religion. In other words, whatever you say about the matter of whether you would like the pope automatically, I don't take as the last word on how you really feel. I think of it more as your job than your choice. That's my whole premise, after all, so what difference are your assurances to the contrary going to make?

Who, after all, would say, "I'm fooling myself"? That would be logically inconsistent. If you are indeed fooling yourself about whether you would find some way or excuse to like any pope regardless of who he was, there's no way you would admit it or even be able to, by definition.

My post really was meant more to point out what I think of as a sort of syndrome of faulty thinking and belief that leads to the willing abandonment of conscience, which I do think is a severe moral flaw. And the abandonment of conscience even to the extent of leading to outright evil seems to me far from an outcome that is foreign to religion. And repeatedly, endlessly proven so.

Make no mistake, it's that process that I don't like, not you. Like I said, I don't even know you, pretend to, or need to in order to make my point.

[daryn]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In risposta di:</font><hr />
correlation does no show causation

and i don't nec belive that most posters are of above average intelligence...

[/ QUOTE ]

both statements are true

[Stuey]

I am agnostic but I don’t think it is superior to any other belief. I have never felt like there is a God or really any higher meaning to life. Life is great but it sucks that it has to end. I am not prepared for it and I don’t see how I ever can be.

Some agnostics say they get strength from knowing the “Truth”. I don’t see how as my belief only makes life and death much more scary to me. I know I am going to die and I am afraid because to me that is the end. When those close to me die I have no hope of seeing them again and have only my memory of them and that will be gone when I go.

Most religious people also say they get strength from knowing the “Truth”. And the people with faith they seem prepared for death. I am jealous and am open to learning more, but when I look into their reasoning it does not make sense to me. I would like nothing more than to face death without fear or regret.

I read the "Jesus is your Savior" thread and it did not offend me. Some guy has found something he believes in and wants to spread it. I am happy for him and I wished reading it would have made me as content as he is. If one person got some peace out of it then it was a good move even if that one person was the OP.

I do not think intelligence is important in regards to religious belief. You were open and honest in explaining your beliefs and I respect that. So I think studying theology like you do is brave and a very intelligent choice. A guy like you will probably have to hold my hand as I die crying like a baby. Easy to see who is stupid then I guess.

[vulturesrow]

Emmitt,

You know my feelings on all this. For those that dont, I consider myself a devout Catholic and like the OP, I study the faith constantly. Im actually suprised this thread has stayed as civil as it has.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
Im actually suprised this thread has stayed as civil as it has.

[/ QUOTE ]me too.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
If the Pope is not jiving with those two things, such as killing people, I am not going to agree with him or like him at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Would you do anything about it? Would you still patronize the church he is representing, essentially, turning a blind eye, waiting for him to run his course?

b

btw...Thanks for your honesty and openness in this thread.

[BruinEric]

Although this thread has apparently headed toward a debate-with-Emmitt thread, I'll answer the original question:

I am a Protestant Christian and take God seriously. I am most convinced of what is called Reformed Theology, which is essentially the doctrines that emerged from the Reformation and are adhered to by a good plurality of protestant denominations.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
Some agnostics say they get strength from knowing the “Truth”.

[/ QUOTE ]

The agnostics I know don't know the 'truth'. They just don't believe in any of the religions explanation of the truth that is out there.

[ QUOTE ]
And the people with faith they seem prepared for death.

[/ QUOTE ]

So did the followers of the Hale Bop comet.

[ QUOTE ]
I read the "Jesus is your Savior" thread and it did not offend me. Some guy has found something he believes in and wants to spread it. I am happy for him and I wished reading it would have made me as content as he is.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't really call him 'content'.

[ QUOTE ]
So I think studying theology like you do is brave and a very intelligent choice.

[/ QUOTE ]

It has been shown, especially in the mormon community, that the more one studies the theologies of their religion, they tend to grow away from it.

[ QUOTE ]
A guy like you will probably have to hold my hand as I die crying like a baby. Easy to see who is stupid then I guess.

[/ QUOTE ]

In this case, why would stupidity enter the equation? You don't have to be part of a religion to understand death or to deal with it.

b

[zephed56]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
When I say I love the Pope I am refering to the position itself because I believe that it was given to the Church by Jesus Himself so it is a very awesome thing to have a man leading our Church here on earth and a heirarchy to ensure that we stay in line. I also love our new Pope Benedict XVI because he carries on many of the same things that JPII put into place and I feel he knows the Truth. If he were a crappy pope, would I personally like him? No, but I would respect him as long as he did not sin or lead his Church into sin. I don't know why your gay friend would like him because most liberals despise him for being so conservative.


[/ QUOTE ]

The hard part to believe is not that you like the pope. That's sure no stunner. It's that you wouldn't automatically like anyone who was named pope, whether you liked him or not, or had ever heard of him or not. In other words, any random guy on the planet would be a shoo-in for your affection as pope. Maybe even a totally evil guy.

The hard thing to believe would be your not finding an excuse to not just justify but celebrate the selection of even the devil himself, as long as some church guys told you to.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think what Emmitt is trying to say is...

The teachings in the bible are most important.

[New001]

[ QUOTE ]
Some agnostics say they get strength from knowing the “Truth”. I don’t see how as my belief only makes life and death much more scary to me. I know I am going to die and I am afraid because to me that is the end. When those close to me die I have no hope of seeing them again and have only my memory of them and that will be gone when I go.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand this. I am not religious, nor do I believe in any kind of higher power. Whenever I die, as far as I'm concerned, I'm done. My body either goes to the worms or my ashes get spread. Why do you want things to continue forever, and why should they?

And, for what it's worth, I would be highly surprised if the spammer earlier wasn't far, far less content than you see him. More likely, he is probably insecure about his own feelings because they aren't accepted by everyone.

[scotty34]

[ QUOTE ]
If you have never met David Sklansky then you are not completely sure that he exists, you do not have certain proof so you must have some amount of faith.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why does David Sklansky so often get mentioned in threads with regards to God?

[Chairman Wood]

Emmitt,
I grew up in a strong Catholic family but due to what sense I have made of the Universe as well as some events in my personal life I do not believe in any deity. Many others on here agree with me. They like I, tend to think that some believes that are conerstones to Christianity are illogical and the result of unclear thinking. However, I just want to say to you what I say to a lot of my religious friends: Awesome good for you. It is obvious that this brings a great deal of happiness to you and gives you an extra sense of purpose to your life. I think it would be completely illogical to deny that purpose and happiness to yourself. Apparently for your life, this nonsense (according to me), is +EV. A lot of people may give you guff and I know you really don't care anyway but IMO, your religious beliefs are a clear and intelligent decision for you.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
When I say I love the Pope I am refering to the position itself because I believe that it was given to the Church by Jesus Himself so it is a very awesome thing to have a man leading our Church here on earth and a heirarchy to ensure that we stay in line. I also love our new Pope Benedict XVI because he carries on many of the same things that JPII put into place and I feel he knows the Truth. If he were a crappy pope, would I personally like him? No, but I would respect him as long as he did not sin or lead his Church into sin. I don't know why your gay friend would like him because most liberals despise him for being so conservative.


[/ QUOTE ]

The hard part to believe is not that you like the pope. That's sure no stunner. It's that you wouldn't automatically like anyone who was named pope, whether you liked him or not, or had ever heard of him or not. In other words, any random guy on the planet would be a shoo-in for your affection as pope. Maybe even a totally evil guy.

The hard thing to believe would be your not finding an excuse to not just justify but celebrate the selection of even the devil himself, as long as some church guys told you to.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think what Emmitt is trying to say is...

The teachings in the bible are most important.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would agree with that part. Like many people, I find much more that is admirable in the bible than in the church.

[Blarg]

The guy is hugely passive-aggressive, and frankly he's acting deranged. And it's not close.

He seems like a very tortured fellow to me.

[oreogod]

Yeah I dont tango much with religion...while I would be willing to accept a mintue belief in god at some point, right now it isnt for me, one because I dont feel he exists and the other reason, mass religion freaks me out.

Alot of ppl who are religious (part of my dads side of the family) seems to have signed up for a life of no thinking. Everything that happens is Gods will, they take no responsiblity for their actions using God and the church as a crutch.

Same thing with the protesters out side of abortion clinics, hazing doctors, patients...throwing stones. I had a friend who went through that...when I went to pick her up, I walked over to the protesters and told them, Im going in their to pick up a friend of mine, she doesnt need to here your fundamental crap, etc...they told me it was a sin and such and I asked them, if Jesus were here right now, what would he do, would he be here on the sidelines with u casting stones or in their consoling somebody who just went through a horrible ordeal? Some of them actually went home..but it brings me to another part about religion I dislike...

Which is the whole judgemental issue. Correct me if Im right or wrong, but wasnt the church founded on love, forgivness and compassion? People seem to be using religion as a way of firing stones at whatever topic they deem neccesary.

I think religion as we know it will change slightly, as this is getting to be a forward thinking society (arguable though) and I feel some things are keep us back.

The whole gay issue will be sorted out eventually anyway (one example)...constituationaly its only a matter of time before they are deemed equal rights, as they should be, and eventually the church will have to accept it. It might even get to a point where the church has nothing left to fight and can actually get to a more purer form than where it has been in just about forever. (there always seems to be some agenda they are fighting or are against....what happens as those agendas start disappearing and fewer and fewer pop up).

Who knows awhile from now, mass religion could be more accepting of many things, or tolerant of, and hence maybe more ppl will go to it.

[oreogod]

That being said, I do sometimes tell God to go F*ck himself for giving me piss poor cards at the tables.

Could be my atheist tax. Like when u go over a bridge, sometimes u got to pay the toll to use it, sometimes u have to pay to keep a thinking mind.

**I dont actually believe any of the above crap.

[New001]

Fair enough.

[Stuey]

[ QUOTE ]
The guy is hugely passive-aggressive, and frankly he's acting deranged. And it's not close.

He seems like a very tortured fellow to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is good really good I'm serious.

[Stuey]

[ QUOTE ]


Quote:
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Some agnostics say they get strength from knowing the “Truth”. I don’t see how as my belief only makes life and death much more scary to me. I know I am going to die and I am afraid because to me that is the end. When those close to me die I have no hope of seeing them again and have only my memory of them and that will be gone when I go.


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I don't understand this. I am not religious, nor do I believe in any kind of higher power. Whenever I die, as far as I'm concerned, I'm done. My body either goes to the worms or my ashes get spread. Why do you want things to continue forever, and why should they?

And, for what it's worth, I would be highly surprised if the spammer earlier wasn't far, far less content than you see him. More likely, he is probably insecure about his own feelings because they aren't accepted by everyone.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't worry about what happens after I die. I know nothing will happen. I just don't want to go through a long slow decline and lots of suffering. I used to think I was tough enough for anything. But have found out the hard way that when true suffering hits me it will break my will quickly.

A quick death would solve this. But even then it is going to feel like drowning or worse. Every person and animal I have seen die seemed to suffer.

People want to die in their sleep. I don't think this happens I think you wake up suddenly, realize you are dieing, choke for a few minutes and then die.

I'm pretty sure when the time comes it will be easy to get through. Just like being born, it must have hurt like hell but I don't remember it so no problem. But the fear of the unknown is what gets me.

I was just trying to be honest. I am afraid of the process of dieing. I am cool with the fact that nothing will happen after though. And don't think I spend much time worrying about any of this. I'm busy living, probably to busy, like everyone else. 4 tabling atm certianly a dumb but fun way to waste my life. Will I regret it? doubtful Also thanks to bernie for your reply, I read it and I think I get it.