American History X

[KaneKungFu123]

Alot of people who generally have very good taste in movies seem to love this movie. Ive never been able to figure out why.

My guess is that alot of people simply enjoy the explict racism. Everyone loves that 'sick' scene where he tells the n----a to bite the curb. Its edgy, which fits alot of peoples agenda.

As for all other aspects of film making, it failed.

[Vince Young]

no

[Slow Play Ray]

[ QUOTE ]
...where he tells the n----a to bite the curve...

[/ QUOTE ]

It's called a CURB.

I'm sorry you couldn't appreciate the movie...to each his own.

[shant]

Yeah, either that or it's a good movie.

[Voltron87]

I'm so convinced that this is a good movie, I'll give you $100 if you watch it again.

[pryor15]

[ QUOTE ]
As for all other aspects of film making, it failed.

[/ QUOTE ]

and which aspects are those?

[Macdaddy Warsaw]

I've never seen it. Want to make it $200 for me to watch it?

[ozyman]

Intersting background on the movie.

The director of the movie Tony Kaye wanted his name removed from the movie and replaced with Humpty Dumpty after Ed Norton re-edited it for the studio. He even sued them for over $200 million dollars for leaving his name on as director. It would have been intersting to see his version of the film as there are a couple parts where it feels a little strange.

[Voltron87]

[ QUOTE ]
I've never seen it. Want to make it $200 for me to watch it?

[/ QUOTE ]

sure. tell me when you finish and I'll send the money on party.

[Uston]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As for all other aspects of film making, it failed.

[/ QUOTE ]

and which aspects are those?

[/ QUOTE ]

All of the aspects that don't involve bottlecapping, apparently.

[this guy]

[ QUOTE ]
Intersting background on the movie.

The director of the movie Tony Kaye wanted his name removed from the movie and replaced with Humpty Dumpty after Ed Norton re-edited it for the studio. He even sued them for over $200 million dollars for leaving his name on as director. It would have been intersting to see his version of the film as there are a couple parts where it feels a little strange.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hear that's why he hasn't directed anything worthwhile since American History X, because the studios don't want to deal with him.

[B Dids]

It's good, but it's not as good as a lot of people make it out to be.

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
It's good, <font color="red">better than</font> a lot of people make it out to be.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

Yugoslav

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]
My guess is that alot of people simply enjoy the explict racism. Everyone loves that 'sick' scene where he tells the n----a to bite the curb. Its edgy, which fits alot of peoples agenda.

[/ QUOTE ]

That scene was a little much for me. As for the rest of the movie, I didn't think too much of it, either. It seemed hamfisted and rather unlikely to have Norton's character go through the transformation that he does: "Hey, you know, prison has taught me that not all black people are bad! Like this guy I did the laundry with, he told some funny jokes and we made good conversation! And some white dudes are anal rapists! What a fool I've been all along! Oh, little Eddie Furlong, let me teach you the error of your ways."

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
Intersting background on the movie.

The director of the movie Tony Kaye wanted his name removed from the movie and replaced with Humpty Dumpty after Ed Norton re-edited it for the studio. He even sued them for over $200 million dollars for leaving his name on as director. It would have been intersting to see his version of the film as there are a couple parts where it feels a little strange.

[/ QUOTE ]

Also interesting is that he was such a screwball flake that they basically fired him in the middle of his own picture after they just couldn't take it anymore.

[slickpoppa]

Anyone find it weird how ed norton was so cut in that movie but has always been a skinny bitch before and after it.

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]
Alot of people who generally have very good taste in movies seem to love this movie. Ive never been able to figure out why.

My guess is that alot of people simply enjoy the explict racism. Everyone loves that 'sick' scene where he tells the n----a to bite the curb. Its edgy, which fits alot of peoples agenda.

As for all other aspects of film making, it failed.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that it isn't one of the greatest movies of all time, but it's definitely much better than average. The movie is *very* good for the first hour or so. It loses its way in trying to show how Norton suddenly "sees the light" and realizes that the whole Aryan thing is BS.

[SpearsBritney]

meh... 3 months of creatine/diet. Norton doesn't need muscles to score kickass roles.

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
Alot of people who generally have very good taste in movies seem to love this movie. Ive never been able to figure out why.

My guess is that alot of people simply enjoy the explict racism. Everyone loves that 'sick' scene where he tells the n----a to bite the curb. Its edgy, which fits alot of peoples agenda.

As for all other aspects of film making, it failed.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have a feeling this movie was simply way over your head.

Astroglide is the only person I've ever interacted with that has had a colorful background and didn't like this movie. I'm still curious as to why. Then again he just said it was overrated which could mean anything....

[-Skeme-]

His speech to the reporter right after his father died was hilarious.

[Jman28]

Your opinion is wrong.

[fsuplayer]

anybody else have a real good idea of what his opinion of this movie would be before opening the thread?

[radek2166]

To me it was a very powerful move. To show the hate that exists in today society. The hate and racism that we do not see.

[Felix_Nietsche]

I like the movie...

And for the OP.....the first violent scene was MAKE BELIEVE! The black actor was not hurt in anyway.... And he was VERY happy for the work so he could pay his SAG dues.... /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
It seemed hamfisted and rather unlikely to have Norton's character go through the transformation that he does: "Hey, you know, prison has taught me that not all black people are bad! Like this guy I did the laundry with, he told some funny jokes and we made good conversation! And some white dudes are anal rapists! What a fool I've been all along! Oh, little Eddie Furlong, let me teach you the error of your ways."


[/ QUOTE ]

Do you really need 5 extra hours of him rehabbing his thoughts while in rpison to get the point across?

b

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]

Do you really need 5 extra hours of him rehabbing his thoughts while in rpison to get the point across?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, that would probably make a pretty boring movie. I think it was a bad direction for the movie to take, because it just doesn't seem like something his character would do.

But perhaps I'm wrong, and the path to true racial harmony in the U.S. starts with a bunch of hard-hitting white boys running a train on the Grand Wizard of the KKK while he watches Chappelle's Show.

[bernie]

This movie was on my nightstand for 6 months. My roommate kept telling me to watch it. What held me back was the curb scene. Just the thought of it. Mind you, i've seen some pretty nasty, violent sh*t. Which one of my buds brought up to me the other day when I told him my reaction to that scene. That scene resonates a little too deep for me for many personal reasons. My imagination is a little too vivid for me in that respect.

So I finally watched it about a month ago. I thought it was a very powerful flick. But I've also read enough about this type of racism, along with seeing enough documentaries, that they don't have to fill in all the blanks. I've encountered some people that have that type of attitude, though not quite that extreme. I've also read about people who have recovered from their beliefs by being around a single person. It reminded me of a story in the paper long ago about a jewish guy and an aryan who eventually became friends. 1 guy can make a difference.

Personally, I really do not understand having that intense of hate towards someone just because of their race (among other things people have intense hate towards someone over that they basically know nothing about personally). I just don't get it. But it is a real fact of life on many levels.

For entertainment:

I didn't make it during the curb scene. Right when the guy's teeth just touch the curb, I literally had to go outside. Bolting for the door. Kind of glad my roomie wasn't home to witness that. /images/graemlins/grin.gif I've never had to do that before, ever. I would pace a bit, calming my nerves, then open the door and listen to see if the scene was over. It seemed to take forever. But, once it was over, I was able to enjoy the flick.

b

[shant]

[ QUOTE ]
I didn't make it during the curb scene. Right when the guy's teeth just touch the curb, I literally had to go outside. Bolting for the door. Kind of glad my roomie wasn't home to witness that. /images/graemlins/grin.gif I've never had to do that before, ever. I would pace a bit, calming my nerves, then open the door and listen to see if the scene was over. It seemed to take forever. But, once it was over, I was able to enjoy the flick.

[/ QUOTE ]
I watched this movie in the theater. The sound of the guy's teeth grinding up to the curb in surround sound is still the most uncomfortable I've ever been in a movie theater.

[Tron]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I didn't make it during the curb scene. Right when the guy's teeth just touch the curb, I literally had to go outside. Bolting for the door. Kind of glad my roomie wasn't home to witness that. /images/graemlins/grin.gif I've never had to do that before, ever. I would pace a bit, calming my nerves, then open the door and listen to see if the scene was over. It seemed to take forever. But, once it was over, I was able to enjoy the flick.

[/ QUOTE ]
I watched this movie in the theater. The sound of the guy's teeth grinding up to the curb in surround sound is still the most uncomfortable I've ever been in a movie theater.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't even imagine seeing this in the theatre and having no idea that this was coming. At least I had a chance to mentally prepare myself.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it was a bad direction for the movie to take, because it just doesn't seem like something his character would do.


[/ QUOTE ]

His character was a thinker. He wasn't going to selectively look the other way while his protection didn't practice what they preached. That's where he kind of started questioning his own motives. The laundry was his only real solace for interaction with someone else. He was out on his own after he left the protection of his group in prison. Yes, it's very possible that someone hardcore could make friends and get to know someone with anyone in that type of situation. It turns from being about survival survival to genuine.

I guess they could've thrown in a few more shower rape scenes.

b

[Tron]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess they could've thrown in a few more shower rape scenes.

b

[/ QUOTE ]

You can say that about most movies these days.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
I can't even imagine seeing this in the theatre and having no idea that this was coming. At least I had a chance to mentally prepare myself.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, Not sure how I would've reacted in a theatre not knowing it was coming. Especially given how I reacted 'knowing' it was coming.

b

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
You can say that about most movies these days.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think it would've helped Nap Dynamite. Nothing is going to get me those lost 90 mins of my life back.

b

[astroglide]

[ QUOTE ]
Astroglide is the only person I've ever interacted with that has had a colorful background and didn't like this movie. I'm still curious as to why. Then again he just said it was overrated which could mean anything....

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't hate the movie, but it's hard to remain objective about it when everybody heralds it as the second coming of christ. i thought it was fine, but it's nothing i'd care to own/rent or recommend to somebody. didactic, overdramatic, overacted, relentlessly assaults the audience with its instantly obvious points. ditto requiem for a dream.

[Blarg]

I feel like the anti-Christ for not being overly thrilled with The Big Lebowski.

[wacki]

I'm not sure how those people were overacting. People like that tend to be crazy and very emotional anyway.

Overdramatic? I saw a 60 minutes interview where a young female skinhead was asked what she was thinking when her friends were bashing in a guys head with baseball bats. Her response: "He should of been wearing a helmet." So I guess I have trouble figuring out what is over dramatic about that story. Crazy people are called crazy for a reason.

Didetic? Second coming of christ?? Ok, I'm totally with you there. People who chant that stuff are a little.... well you know. It was a story. I paid money to be entertained. That movie was very powerful and stirred up a lot of emotions. Therefore it was an excellent movie IMO and was worth every penny. If I wanted to learn, I'd pick up a book.

[bisonbison]

I didn't like it. Felt it was preachy and forced.

AHX is significantly less good than The Believer.

[KaneKungFu123]

[ QUOTE ]
His speech to the reporter right after his father died was hilarious.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah. i commented on that in another thread.

[KaneKungFu123]

[ QUOTE ]

I thought it was a very powerful flick.
b

[/ QUOTE ]

What is powerful about it?

It seems extreamly abc to me.

hes racist. goes to jail. makes friends with a balck dude.

then in a piece of briliant writing, his lil brother suffers the same fate as him, ebcause he cant change him in time.

Wow. So brilliant and moving and powerful.

Hey, it really gets ya thinking doesnt it...

And what started him on being racist?

Oh his father was a racist...

Hmm, really intesne stuff. gets ya thinking....

holy crap....

give it an oscar...

this movie galmorized racism more than anything...

[KaneKungFu123]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Alot of people who generally have very good taste in movies seem to love this movie. Ive never been able to figure out why.

My guess is that alot of people simply enjoy the explict racism. Everyone loves that 'sick' scene where he tells the n----a to bite the curb. Its edgy, which fits alot of peoples agenda.

As for all other aspects of film making, it failed.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have a feeling this movie was simply way over your head.



[/ QUOTE ]

it went way under my head, at your eye level.

[jakethebake]

I thought it was a good movie, but not great.

[KaneKungFu123]

norton commits one of the single most violent acts ever portrayed on film, then goes to jail and plays basketball with black guys and sees the light.

100% powerful realistic film making.

[jack spade23]

Despite the non realistic consequences of going to jail and becoming friends with a black guy immediatley, I thought the movie was decent

[Slow Play Ray]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I thought it was a very powerful flick.
b

[/ QUOTE ]

What is powerful about it?

It seems extreamly abc to me.

hes racist. goes to jail. makes friends with a balck dude.

then in a piece of briliant writing, his lil brother suffers the same fate as him, ebcause he cant change him in time.

Wow. So brilliant and moving and powerful.

Hey, it really gets ya thinking doesnt it...

And what started him on being racist?

Oh his father was a racist...

Hmm, really intesne stuff. gets ya thinking....

holy crap....

give it an oscar...

this movie galmorized racism more than anything...

[/ QUOTE ]

Always cracks me up when people use this type of "argument" - you can talk like this about any movie, or anything for that matter, good or bad.

For example:

What's so great about Shawshank Redemption?

It's pretty basic.

Guy goes to jail for a crime he doesn't commit.

He makes friends with a black dude.

Gets in good with the guards by doing their taxes.

Then in a brilliant piece of writing, he escapes the prison right under the noses of the guards who have come to trust him.

Wow. So moving. This movie glamourized prison breaks more than anything.

So, you see how stupid that sounds?

[StevieG]

Ed Norton as racist going to prison and realizing he was being manipulated by less than true believers is a fine premise, makes a good movie.

Ed Norton dunking a basketball during the movie is just plain unbelievable.

[KaneKungFu123]

[ QUOTE ]
Ed Norton as racist going to prison and realizing he was being manipulated by less than true believers is a fine premise, makes a good movie.

Ed Norton dunking a basketball during the movie is just plain unbelievable.

[/ QUOTE ]

a fine premise?

ROTFL

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It seemed hamfisted and rather unlikely to have Norton's character go through the transformation that he does: "Hey, you know, prison has taught me that not all black people are bad! Like this guy I did the laundry with, he told some funny jokes and we made good conversation! And some white dudes are anal rapists! What a fool I've been all along! Oh, little Eddie Furlong, let me teach you the error of your ways."


[/ QUOTE ]

Do you really need 5 extra hours of him rehabbing his thoughts while in rpison to get the point across?

b

[/ QUOTE ]

I think one of the main problems with the editing were the scenes in prison. He spent 3 (?) years in prison, but we don't really feel like we are watching someone spending that much time behind bars. Spending a that much time in prison could very well change someone's perspective on life, which would make his transformation believable. They didn't need to add 5 hours to the movie to make their point, but they could have done a better job in conveying to the audience that so much time had passed.

[KaneKungFu123]

what about the guy who dragged the black guy behind his car?

maybe he can join an interraccial prison badmitten team and see the error of his ways.

hahahahahahahaahhaha

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ed Norton as racist going to prison and realizing he was being manipulated by less than true believers is a fine premise, makes a good movie.

Ed Norton dunking a basketball during the movie is just plain unbelievable.

[/ QUOTE ]

a fine premise?

ROTFL

[/ QUOTE ]

[astroglide]

[ QUOTE ]
What's so great about Shawshank Redemption?

[/ QUOTE ]

it's a very entertaining and pleasant movie for people of all age groups and classes to watch, and it is very rewatchable. also one of the most overrated movies of all time.

[astroglide]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure how those people were overacting. People like that tend to be crazy and very emotional anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

fat boy kubiak, 'modern day hitler', etc were really overacted characters. these kinds of people will be naturally intense, i'm saying as actors their skills were not up to snuff and their performances came off as cheesy.

[Slow Play Ray]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What's so great about Shawshank Redemption?

[/ QUOTE ]

it's a very entertaining and pleasant movie for people of all age groups and classes to watch, and it is very rewatchable. also one of the most overrated movies of all time.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you missed the point of my post...

[astroglide]

i didn't miss the point, i just used the opportunity to mention shawshank while we're discussing overrated movies. ahx, requiem, and shawshank are the best 3 i can think of.

[VBM]

[ QUOTE ]
norton commits one of the single most violent acts ever portrayed on film, then goes to jail and plays basketball with black guys and sees the light.

100% powerful realistic film making.

[/ QUOTE ]

granted, the movie was a bit hamfisted in the way it set up its revelations for the ed norton character to jump through.

but your synopsis is just as sweeping and overwrought.

[Slow Play Ray]

[ QUOTE ]
i didn't miss the point, i just used the opportunity to mention shawshank while we're discussing overrated movies. ahx, requiem, and shawshank are the best 3 i can think of.

[/ QUOTE ]

Gotcha.

I don't consider AHX or Shawshank overrated - they are both phenominal movies IMHO. Requiem I did not care for, but a good amount of people I've discussed it with didn't like it either, so I never really considered it rated that high to begin with...

[JaBlue]

[ QUOTE ]
what about the guy who dragged the black guy behind his car?

maybe he can join an interraccial prison badmitten team and see the error of his ways.

hahahahahahahaahhaha

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ed Norton as racist going to prison and realizing he was being manipulated by less than true believers is a fine premise, makes a good movie.

Ed Norton dunking a basketball during the movie is just plain unbelievable.

[/ QUOTE ]

a fine premise?

ROTFL

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

did you just quote yourself and then respond to it...?

[thatpfunk]

Astro,
Have you ever seen a movie have a more jarring effect on its audience than Requiem? I've seen it quite a few times with quite a few different types of people (and it does try VERY hard, I know), and after it ends everyone looks very rattled for a few minutes.

I'm more interested on your RFD thoughts than AHX.

[astroglide]

i saw both rfd and ahx in a theater, but it's an art house type place. i didn't really pay a lot of attention to the others' reactions, just those with whom i went and subsequent discussions among friends. i've watched it once, seen it maybe a couple more times. nobody really seemed surprised by it. some of them liked it and some didn't. none of them loved it, most were largely unaffected by it and found it off-putting that it tried so very hard to affect them.

"was that difficult to watch? how about NOW? HAHA! no? HOW ABOUT NOW?! still no? /images/graemlins/frown.gif" *yawn*

the effect is actually reminiscent of what i disliked about hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy. it took about 10 minutes to get immersed into its 'wacky world'. after that, no matter what they did it couldn't get a response from me. i think subject matter and depiction like requiem is going to break out of that pattern for a lot of people just because they find it honestly repulsive. for me it was like, "ok i'm in the addiction world now" after a little bit into the movie and everything wasn't jarring or made me want to avert my gaze. if you feel the way i felt about hitchhiker's, you can adapt that feeling to understand how jaded pricks like me can be unfazed by rfd.

[sublime]

its an average movie IMO. maybe because i was used to that type of violence and hate. so in other words, its shock value made it seem "really good" to most people.

[MrOnizuka]

[ QUOTE ]
AHX is significantly less good than The Believer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Rented the Believer las summer cause it had a funny cover with a dude doing the ole' Heil Hitler pose over the background of a Star of David. Turned out to be a pretty awesome film about a Jewish neo-nazi.

[thatpfunk]

Interesting, thanks for the reponse.

Random observation: After reading some work by the original novelist (Hubert Selby Jr) I think stylistically the movie follows the book as close as possible. ( Brief online excerpt from novel (http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/1560252480/ref=sib_dp_pt/104-7026990-7094329#reader-link))

Obviously it doesn't seem like your thing, but it does surprise me because of how many things I think the movie does well, and you seem to have good taste. Oh well.

[KaneKungFu123]

i also thought rfd was overrated, but not as much as ahx.

the acting in rfd was very good. but i really didnt give a [censored] about any of them and the movie's inevitable ending just took forever. the scenes with his mom and the tv show bordered unwatchable.

i can see why people like rfd. it just isnt my type of movie. it was well done though.

ahx on the other hand just SUCKS SUCKS SUCKS SUCKS SUCKS....
[ QUOTE ]
i saw both rfd and ahx in a theater, but it's an art house type place. i didn't really pay a lot of attention to the others' reactions, just those with whom i went and subsequent discussions among friends. i've watched it once, seen it maybe a couple more times. nobody really seemed surprised by it. some of them liked it and some didn't. none of them loved it, most were largely unaffected by it and found it off-putting that it tried so very hard to affect them.

"was that difficult to watch? how about NOW? HAHA! no? HOW ABOUT NOW?! still no? /images/graemlins/frown.gif" *yawn*

the effect is actually reminiscent of what i disliked about hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy. it took about 10 minutes to get immersed into its 'wacky world'. after that, no matter what they did it couldn't get a response from me. i think subject matter and depiction like requiem is going to break out of that pattern for a lot of people just because they find it honestly repulsive. for me it was like, "ok i'm in the addiction world now" after a little bit into the movie and everything wasn't jarring or made me want to avert my gaze. if you feel the way i felt about hitchhiker's, you can adapt that feeling to understand how jaded pricks like me can be unfazed by rfd.

[/ QUOTE ]

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
They didn't need to add 5 hours to the movie to make their point, but they could have done a better job in conveying to the audience that so much time had passed.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can agree with that. I've read a few books about guys in prison so my view is a little tainted in comparison to the average moviewatcher I guess.

b

[ZeeJustin]

[ QUOTE ]
norton commits one of the single most violent acts ever portrayed on film, then goes to jail and plays basketball with black guys and sees the light.

100% powerful realistic film making.

[/ QUOTE ]

Apparently you didn't understand the movie at all. He played basketball w/ the black guys long before he was in jail.

Maybe you weren't paying enough attention to realize the black and white secenes were flashbacks.

FWIW, this is my favorite movie. I think it was brilliantly directed, and all the dialogue, every camera shot, and the lighting is just perfect.

[astroglide]

[ QUOTE ]
FWIW, this is my favorite movie.

[/ QUOTE ]

hahahahahahaha

[KaneKungFu123]

apparently youre a [censored] idiot.

norton ALSO plays basketball with black guys INSIDE prison.

then he gets raped cause the white guys want to treat him like a nigger.

the fact that this is your favorite movie makes me agree with astrglide's hahahahahahaahahahaha

you suck ahole.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
norton commits one of the single most violent acts ever portrayed on film, then goes to jail and plays basketball with black guys and sees the light.

100% powerful realistic film making.

[/ QUOTE ]

Apparently you didn't understand the movie at all. He played basketball w/ the black guys long before he was in jail.

Maybe you weren't paying enough attention to realize the black and white secenes were flashbacks.

FWIW, this is my favorite movie. I think it was brilliantly directed, and all the dialogue, every camera shot, and the lighting is just perfect.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Vince Young]

[ QUOTE ]
norton ALSO plays basketball with black guys INSIDE prison.

[/ QUOTE ]
When?

[sublime]

apparently youre a [censored] idiot.

lol