Overcards with a backdoor flush draw

[gman420]

would you play this hand differently?

0.5/1 party poker, no reads, hero is SB w/ AcKd

UTG calls, UTG+1 raises, 6 folds, hero reraises, two folds, UTG+1 caps, hero calls

(12 sb)
Flop: Jc, 2d, 3c

Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, Hero reraises, UTG+1 calls

(9bb)
Turn: 7c

Hero bets, UTG+1 calls


(11bb)
River: 8c

Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls


would you play this differently if your overcards were AT (obviously no J then)?

[Rev. Good Will]

after a PF cap, i like calling, or bet/calling (i prefer the second) better then check/raising, your behind here most the time against all "cap worthy" hands

everything else is nice

[rafct]

I would not bet the flop. You are tied with AK but losing to other capping hands (JJ to AA). On the turn, there is no equity to bet either so I just call down. The river is very likely a scare card for him so the checkraise has a chance to fail, thus I would just bet it out.

[gman420]

when he didn't reraise the flop, i figured he has a pocket pair he wasn't so sure of (lower than JJ), which is why I led out the turn (also, i figured I had 14 outs at that point, and if I was going to call I might as well bet considering my agression thus far might make him fold). Not sure if this is great logic though. I debated about the check raise, but the check makes it look like im sitting there with high cards, and i thought it was likely he would bet knowing that I would prob call in such a big pot. Definately point out where you think I'm going wrong though, as I'm still a fairly new player and need lots of help. :-)

[Bradyams]

[ QUOTE ]
when he didn't reraise the flop, i figured he has a pocket pair he wasn't so sure of (lower than JJ), which is why I led out the turn (also, i figured I had 14 outs at that point, and if I was going to call I might as well bet considering my agression thus far might make him fold). Not sure if this is great logic though. I debated about the check raise, but the check makes it look like im sitting there with high cards, and i thought it was likely he would bet knowing that I would prob call in such a big pot. Definately point out where you think I'm going wrong though, as I'm still a fairly new player and need lots of help. :-)

[/ QUOTE ]

A lot of passive players might slow down with QQ, and even KK to your flop 3bet. That's why I don't like your flop 3bet, it does nothing, but chip spew here. You won't get him to fold this hand, and you need to improve to win.

Bet this river, you don't want it checked through when you have the nuts.

[rafct]

This assumption that he has something lower than JJ is something very dangerous to do. What if he has AA and just called this 3bet to checkraise you later? I dont think you should be doing raises "for information". Think of a range of hands he may have and play accordingly.
Also, I think you overvalued your outs estimate, probably overvalued overcard outs?

[ArturiusX]

Some of you people are crazy. A cap does not narrow it down to AA. Some people will cap with AQ, 99 and the like, just for the hell of it.

I think Bet/call a raise, folding turn UI is the best line. You improved with a flush draw, so betting was good.

[Buckmulligan]

[ QUOTE ]
I think Bet/call a raise, folding turn UI is the best line. You improved with a flush draw, so betting was good.


[/ QUOTE ]

Why bet the flop then? How often do you not get raised here? if you are looking to draw to a turn card, I go in cheap and check/call the flop.

In fact, you could argue that if you are bet and raised, it makes less sense to play for a turn card, because it makes it more likely you are drawing dead to JJ, AA, or KK.

[Duerig]

I actually really dislike the way this hand was played. I would check call the flop, you are probably behind at this point and putting a lot of bets in here can't be good. I don't like betting the turn. The way UTG+1 played it, he probably has a big pair (QQ or the like) and isn't going to fold. I check-call the turn also. I'm not sure how I feel about the river check raise. This is something I rarely do, and only if I have a strong read on an opponent.

[gman420]

I think I am coming around to the idea I played this wrong. The bet on the flop is probably wrong, a check and call to see if I improve seems like the right play. Then check/call the turn if I improve to a flush draw, and check/fold if I don't.

At least I lucked out and didn't lose any money for my mistakes

[scotty34]

Bet the river. If he has a club, he will either call or probably even raise, allowing you to 3-bet. If he does not have a club, he will most likely check it through, and you will miss bets.