Live O8 players are worse then Party players

[GooperMC]

I am visiting my brother who lives near an Indian casino, so I decided to check out their O8 game and it was the juiciest game I have ever seen in my life.

It was a 3/6 kill game in which I made about 30/hr and didn't rush the entire time that I was there. I felt like I had an average session, missed the usual amount of draws, got sucked out about the right amount of times and didn't get a ton of playable hands. I really believe that I could maintain that win rate for an extended period of time.

Three hands that really stand out:

Hand 1: I am still on the waiting list so I standing at the end of the table watching the game. The board is 267810 3 diamonds. The first player flips over Ad 2d XX. The players right in front of me picks up his hand and compares it to the board and because I am standing behind him I see he is playing A567. The player looks at the board, looks back at his hand, looks at the board and mucks.

Hand 2: This is a kill pot so we are playing 6/12. UTG raises which almost never happens in this game so he is playing a strong A2 (AA2, A23, ...). UTG+1 calls. The flop is 7c 8c Th. The turn is 6c and the river is the Tc. UTG bets every street. UTG flips over AA2 and UTG+1 flips over 4567. He called a river bet with the ass end of a str8 on a paired / flushed board. He ended up winning the top 1/2 and goes on to tell the other players that he loves those middle wraps because he doesn't have to worry about the low.

Hand3: I am playing Ac Ad 3c 4d OTB. Everyone at the table (except my brother) limps, I raise, everyone calls. Flop is Kd 2d 5c. UTG bets the entire table calls, I raise, UTG 3 bets, 4 callers. Long story short, I ended up rivering the nut flush and he bet into me again. He ended up flipping over KK59, and then berates me about my play and how I sucked out on him. I wanted him to shut up (he was very annoying) so I told him that "actually I was a little ahead of him". He then claimed that I couldn't have been ahead of him because he had a made hand and a draw can never be ahead of a made hand.

If I lived down here I would almost never play online. This was a 3/6 kill game that the players were MUCH worse then a .5/1 party table.

[DeadMoneyOC]

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He then claimed that I couldn't have been ahead of him because he had a made hand and a draw can never be ahead of a made hand.


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HAHAHA, I havent had the guts to play anything other than Holdem in live casino play but this post has served as inspiration! nh

[TGoldman]

Great story, Greg. I don't know if I would have the patience to play O/8 live. Do you find that you have to constantly check and re-check your cards throughout the hand to make sure you are indeed reading your hand correctly? I have a hard enough time remember my rank and suites in live Hold'em play (Which is one of the many reasons why I always play online).

Edit: Oops you're not gergery. LoL, sorry Gooper. Good story nonetheless.

[TheStation]

Live Omaha8 is normally pretty terrible, obviously varies by casino, you normally get a collection of guys between 50-80 who dont understand the fundamentals, by telling that guy you were ahead without a made hand probably blew his mind, they would never accept this, I try not to ever educate anyone. Live omaha8 can be a lot of fun (and profitable) if there is a good mix of players, it can also turn into a long night of slow play and players complaining the entire time when their flopped straight loses (go figure), if anyone hasnt played the local B&M 3/6 or 4/8 omaha8 game i would recomend checking it out

[Truck II]

I had a very similar experience last night playing in my first live O8 game. While waiting for a seat to open up I jumped into a $2-4 HE game that was MUCH, MUCH tighter than the $4-8 game. At best, they play their hands like they're playing Omaha Hi. At worst, oof.

Closest thing I've seen yet to free money in poker.

[toots]

I agree. I've had enormously good luck at the local B&M playing $5/10. Compared to what I run into at one tenth those limits on Party... well, there just isn't any comparison. Yeah, I've hit some lucky cards in the B&M, but even more important, I've run into some incredibly bad players.

In response to the previous question:

No, I haven't had difficulty with remembering cards, although I did see one guy lose big when he thought he filled up on the river, only to find that he remembered his cards wrong.

My problem with O8 live is that it's just harder to look at all four cards without flashing them at the whole table. Don't know why that is, but it's a lot more difficult than just squeezing two cards in a cupped palm.

Mostly, I love playing the fish at an O8 game. "Gee, look at all the cards they give us!"

[Ironman]

Oh I love that...pretending to be the fish. :-)

I have a similar experience. Every Thursday night I play in a live game which is much more profitable than the online games.

It really isn't any harder with the cards to remember everything. I play it pretty straight forward...ABC Omaha stuff.

I know what cards I need to see for my low to be good or my high and will throw a lot of junk away after the flop...if I didn't already throw it away preflop.

You do have to be more patient while people figure out how to split the pot, but it's not that big of a deal.

[PokerProdigy]

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and then berates me about my play and how I sucked out on him. I wanted him to shut up (he was very annoying) so I told him that "actually I was a little ahead of him".

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Cummon man, don't ever give bad players tips/advice/knowledge. Who cares /images/graemlins/confused.gif Just let him think you're lucky and a bad player etc... Trust me, keeping your mouth shut in these situations or just having fun table talk (about sports, weather, jokes, etc...) will bring you more $$$ in the long run. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[GooperMC]

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Live Omaha8 is normally pretty terrible, obviously varies by casino

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This casino just started spreading O8 so I think the game was especially bad.

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I try not to ever educate anyone

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I usually don't but this guy was bothering me and I wanted to shut him up. Unfortunately it didn't work.

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it can also turn into a long night of slow play and players complaining the entire time when their flopped straight loses (go figure)

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There was definitely too much complaining for my taste, however I was there with my brother so I could talk to him. Plus the dealers were all very cool, I had to help some of them sort out the results, but they were friendly people. If I wasn’t there with my brother I think I would bring headphones.

[GooperMC]

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Do you find that you have to constantly check and re-check your cards throughout the hand to make sure you are indeed reading your hand correctly

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I did in the beginning but as I played more I was re-checking less and less. However, I never really found the trick of looking at all 4 cards and still completely concealing my hand.

The good news was that it didn't really matter. These players were so bad that I could have picked up my hand and shown it to the table and they would still call me bets, and nobody was trying to pick up tells when I rechecked my cards.

[GooperMC]

I almost never educate the fish however I play poker more for the fun then I do the money. At the time this player was annoying me, the entire table, and the dealer so I though that I would enjoy telling him that he was wrong more then winning a little bit more from him later.

I know that the dealer appreciated it because the next time I looked at him he winked at me. Either that or he was trying to pick me up .... hmmm now that I think about it .....

[toots]

I'm guilty of educating the fish. Or, I did the other day.

I'm playing O8 at the B&M, and I'm in a hand with little more than the nut low. The table captain to my left is betting like a drunken sailor, and pretty much convincing me that he's got the high. Thing is there's two other people in the hand, and they're check-calling everything, and I get this really sinking feeling that both of them also have the nut low.

Color me paranoid, but in this case, I was right. I probably should have folded on the turn when I came to this conclusion, but sure enough, he bets the turn, call, call, call. He bets the river, call, call, call. He turns up his high. Three olde pharts (I'm including myself) turn up A2 for the low.

Table captain goes on tilt and starts shouting: "I can't believe that three of you had an A2 and none of you bet!" and similar things over and over.

I let it go at first, but he just wouldn't let it go. I finally said, "Dude! I'm not playing for half the pot, and I figured the other two had A2 also, so any bet I would have made would have just put money in your pocket, and I really don't want to do that." The other two olde pharts nodded in assent.

I really regretted that outburst, but fortunately, it had no effect on him. He just kept on as if nothing happened.

I clammed back up, and on subsequent hands, went on to show that I was not at all bashful about betting/raising the nut low, and even less so when I was going to scoop.

But you know, ever since then, I've felt really stupid.

1) Even though I was right about getting sixthed (hexed?), I think I was way too paranoid in that hand. Yeah, I did save myself some money, but if I was right, I should have folded, and if I wasn't, I should have raised

2) If anyone at the table knew what they were doing, my outburst would have only confirmed that I was as big a fool as the ranting table captain.

I played the hand poorly and I played the players poorly.

Next time, I should take a plaque with me that reads "don't tap the glass."

[Tom Bayes]

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My problem with O8 live is that it's just harder to look at all four cards without flashing them at the whole table. Don't know why that is, but it's a lot more difficult than just squeezing two cards in a cupped palm.



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I have little experience playing Omaha live, but what I do once I have my 4 cards, instead of trying to look at all four at once, I'll look at 2, cupping my hands over them just like I was playing holdem, then the other two.

I don't know why half of the B&M O/8 players even bother look at their hands, because they hold up their cards to their face, limp in, keep looking back while calling everything to the river, then hold up their cards with puzzled looks on their faces before making the inevitable crying call, and turn over their hand and try to figure out if they made anything. If not, then argue about the hand /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Tom Bayes]

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Live Omaha8 is normally pretty terrible, obviously varies by casino, you normally get a collection of guys between 50-80 who dont understand the fundamentals, by telling that guy you were ahead without a made hand probably blew his mind, they would never accept this, I try not to ever educate anyone.

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It's always good fun to bet the flop with a nut flush and nut low draw, hit it on the turn or river, and then watch the old nit with the flopped straight with no low or redraws have a conniption fit.

[Ironman]

There's only one exception that I can think of when I will educate the fish.

If they come to me and say...I don't understand the game, could you help me learn how to play.

Had that happen a couple weeks ago at an Omaha SNG. Guy sat down at a table and started raising right away. Within 4 hands we could tell something wasn't right.

Suddenly he says, sorry guys I meant to sit at a Hold 'em table, I don't even know the rules.

So three or four of us told him the basic strategy and he started to do a little better.

He was first out at the table anyway, but we wanted him to come back in the future. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Dave

[toots]

I never miss a chance to do that.

It's like the whole field of O8 players never heard of betting on the come.

[Jim Morgan]

I'm playing O8 at the B&M, and I'm in a hand with little more than the nut low. The table captain to my left is betting like a drunken sailor, and pretty much convincing me that he's got the high. Thing is there's two other people in the hand, and they're check-calling everything, and I get this really sinking feeling that both of them also have the nut low.

Color me paranoid, but in this case, I was right. I probably should have folded on the turn when I came to this conclusion, but sure enough, he bets the turn, call, call, call. He bets the river, call, call, call. He turns up his high. Three olde pharts (I'm including myself) turn up A2 for the low.

Assuming the pot had 4 way action the entire way, no raise pre-flop, it had 4 big bets in it by the time the turn came and you put the other players on low. Calling 2 big bets to get to the river gave you 1/6th of a 12 big bet pot. So, the calls cost nothing. Of course, sensing the presence of two other A2 hands is a long way from being correct. It is far more likely that you are getting quartered. Now calling to the river actually wins 1 big bet. And yes, I know I am ignoring the impact of an A or 2 on the river, but even if that always beat you, calling would net 1 big bet far more often than you will get beat on the river.

In short, folding in that situation is more or less insane. If someone raises the pot, then you may need to fold, but until that happens, you really have no choice but to call.
The three way time for low is just not a very common event and making a read/play to cater to it is just not going to work well in the long run.

About raising.... I think that would be equally silly. If you are reading your opponenets for nut lows, go ahead and assume that one of them does. Or better still, assume thaqt 80% of the time exactly one of them has a nut low and that 10% of the time they both do and play accordingly. The problem with raising on the turn is simple.... You may drive out either high hand and wind up getting quartered in 3-way action and doing so because of your own foolishness.
Getting beat by a bad river is also a possibility, which will be a lot worse than simply knocking out the donator.

Even on the river raising with low and 3 players already in is not always wise. I often do it, but if I have a strong read of getting quartered, I don't do it. If I get re-raised and only the other nut low calls, I have basically pissed off chips for no reason. This idea that one must either raise or fold simply does not apply in all situations, and is a theme that comes up a lot in O-8.

[Trainwreck]

Don't educate at the table, let the donks stay donkified to the max! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Omaha high is spread more in Vegas than O8b, and what I have seen, it's just laughably bad!

Sharks should be circling these games in droves, I'm diving into some OH tomorrow.
Here the std low limit is 4/8, but plays like 1-3 Hold'em at the Excalibur.

YMMV

>TW<