My Biggest Leak (AKA How to Finish 10th)

[Unarmed]

$33 Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG+2 (t710)
MP1 (t1555)
MP2 (t105)
MP3 (t645)
CO (t820)
Button (t830)
SB (t785)
Hero (t755)
UTG (t795)
UTG+1 (t1000)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls t15, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls t15, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP3 calls t15, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls t15, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (t90) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font> SB bets 100, UTG+1 calls 100, MP1 raises 200, all fold to me and I, of course push.

Reasonable play in a cash game, horrible mistake in a SNG where my fold equity here is 0% even against a weak ace and my overlay on the bubble is huge. I think I'm going to start a folding huge draws support group.

[Michael C.]

I don't see why a push is bad there. With a straight and a flush draw, you're 54% to hit one of your outs, and there's already dead money in the pot. Plus it's not impossible that villian folds. So why is that a bad play? If you get beat, just start another one. There is no hand he can hold that you don't have a lot of outs against.

[valenzuela]

ehhh....the push is correct.

[willie]

i wouldn't regret pushing that with umpteen outs.

[valenzuela]

neither would I, ppl get way too carried away with the a coinflip is -EV in a SNG early on BS.

[J-Lo]

I like the fold. I'm in that group who folds marginal hands ealry, because i know i can get a much larger edge on the bubble. If you feel your oponents are better than you, then you push and hope to get lucky. Sometimes there are fools who call you with a higher flush draw-- now your f'd. Do not take small edges early when u can get bigger ones later. Many top tier players have mentioned this fundamental. When u take close gambles early you give the players who folded 2% of the prize pool.

[valenzuela]

[ QUOTE ]
I like the fold. I'm in that group who folds marginal hands ealry, because i know i can get a much larger edge on the bubble.... Do not take small edges early when u can get bigger ones later. .

[/ QUOTE ]

Not this again making -EV desitions because u will get a bigger edge later, thats is just BS.

[Walter Pullis]

IMHO I push here also. But this is the problem with the fact that there are a million other tournaments a person can enter if they call and lose. It's only $30. Let's make believe there
was only one online poker site in the world, and if you bust
you have to wait 3 hours for another game. Things would be different.

[Apathy]

If this is you're biggest leak you have nothing to worry about.

Sometimes you can try to get tricky well big draws like this if you
1. Know close to 100% you have no FE (pretty hard to know)
2. Know you will be payed off if you hit.

Folding when you are a favourite on the flop with money in the pot and a decent chance you can take it down with a raise is crazy.

[fluorescenthippo]

Its quite possible that at least one of your opponents is chasing the flush which kills at least two of your outs. If they have higher flush, which is quite likely, then you only have 6 outs assuming the flush never comes.

By pushing here, at the 33s the flush chaser would still call you (especially if he thinks the reraiser will call because then he is getting odds). Thats why i think this is a fold.

[microbet]

Of course it is possible, but it is a bit of an extraordinary assumption that there is a K or Q-high flush draw in there with you.

[valenzuela]

[ QUOTE ]
Let's make believe there
was only one online poker site in the world, and if you bust
you have to wait 3 hours for another game. Things would be different.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree and disagree, if you can start another game right away I might make an hourly rate play(very slight -ev calls) BUT PLZ NEVER MAKE
-EV FOLDS BECAUSE U WONT BE ABLE TO PLAY ANOTHER GAME.

[RobGW]

Why push? You are drawing to a flush or a str8 both of which will likely win the pot no matter how many people call. If there is a higher flush draw he probably will not be folding anyways. However, you want people with high pairs to call here. You don't want to push everyone out. You want to make as much as you can when you do hit. I would just flat call and let the rest of the field come along as well. If you had overs as well then I would push to make it more likely my overs could win the pot as well. Folding a draw this big is just wrong imo. We could start another support group called how to finish 4th. (By folding too damn much.)

[microbet]

Pushing and everyone folding would be a great result, but calling is not bad because MP1 is fairly unlikely to fold and with your hand it will probably lose to anyone if it misses and beat everyone if it hits.

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
Reasonable play in a cash game, horrible mistake in a SNG where my fold equity here is 0% even against a weak ace and my overlay on the bubble is huge. I think I'm going to start a folding huge draws support group.

[/ QUOTE ]

The reason this is a challenging play in a SitNGo is because the stupid fish don't fold after the flop. They do, however, fold with just one card left to come. I think you'd be better to call and push the turn, whatever the turn is.