If god was proven to be fake....

[David04]

The pope would look like the biggest jackass.

[TStoneMBD]

now all you gotta do is figure out how to prove that god is fake.

good luck.

[CaptObvious]

LOL!

[LINES]

It reminds me of the time when i was in class, and i was incredibly bored, mind you, this was religion class. I got the crazy idea to start talking to someone beside me (Note: Nobody sat beside me) So, i'm carrying on a conversation about life, love, and last nights hockey scores. The teacher turns to me, with this look of disgust, and yells "What are you DOING!?" I turn to her and go "I'm talking to my invisible friend, i believe in him" And she has the nerve to say "He doesn't exist, he's nothing. Quit being a child" So, i look her up and down, some what disappointed, and say "But... God is invisible... does he exist or not?" And she BLEW up. I had to switch religion classes because she refused to take me back into her room.
My point is, you can't prove anything. But the idea, is funny.

[A_C_Slater]

I doubt it. The Vatican would just make up some more self-important rhetoric and parade the pope around in ostentatious clothing and the masses will still think he's important to proper primate society.


"ooooohhh look honey, he's holding a gold scepter, he must really know what's going on, let's give him money and worship him." /images/graemlins/tongue.gif


I hate Catholics. If the age of reason ever arrives for real these will be the first people requiring drastic reconditioning before reintegration into society.

[LINES]

Catholisim is the DUMBEST thing ever. Then again, who are we to judge? "Judge not, lest ye be judged". I hate how much their hippocrites though. It seems like yesterday when the Roman Church was sending out letters and soldiers to collect your money, so you can get a "pass into heaven". The more you gave, the more of a chance you'll be granted access into heaven. The less you gave, well then... have fun burning in hell.

****ing bastards

[A_C_Slater]

I don't really hate anything. But I hate Catholics. I just don't respect them. It's just the most absurd thing imaginable. I guess I hate them because they represent a part of the human condition given over to irrational and often violent superstition. Witch hunts.

I just cannot fathom how any human being could take Catholicism seriously. I really can't. It burns me inside. I mean, what the hell are they thinking? Do they really think they'll spend an eternity in heaven because they hang pictures of the Virgin Mary on their walls. Or because they go to a buliding every Sunday with a bunch of "fancy smancy" decorations in them. Most of them have never even bothered to read a bible in their whole sedated lives.


Here's one of my favorites that no Catholic would be able to understand because they don't really believe in anything:


How much less in them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation is in the dust, which are crushed before the moth? They are destroyed from morning to evening: they perish for ever without any regarding it. Doth not their excellency which is in them go away? they die, even without wisdom. ---Job 4: 19-21

[Little Fishy]

I think all the posters who say they hate cathocs are being rediculous.

you say you don't like catholics because the church did immoral things in the past. just because you're german does that mean you burned jews?? NO. just because some1 is catholic does not mean they sold indulgences or touched little boys.

[ QUOTE ]
Do they really think they'll spend an eternity in heaven because they hang pictures of the Virgin Mary on their walls. Or because they go to a buliding every Sunday with a bunch of "fancy smancy" decorations

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think that's the messege of catholithism. and you can find hypocritcal individuals or groups of individuals in any faith, belief or following.

if you have issues with aspects of the church than ok so be it. if you dislike specific catholic individuals than that's fine. however making gross statements about all catholics is not only insulting but also hypocritical and dangerous.

it could be argued that all intersocial oppression is the result of in-group versus outgroup morality. many believe that it is an intrinsic element of human nature to band together into groups of individuals of likeness. this likeness can be skin tone, accetn, class, favorite color, were one lives it doesn't matter. what does matter though is that we band togaether and promote increased morality within our own group. this then creates an imbalance in the morality that we show towards outgrop members. it has been argued (albiet not well) that much of old testament as well as new testament scripture preaches and ingroup morality and a lack of morality towards outgroup members. this intern promotes discrimination and violence towards out group members. this carries over into modern day powers s well. why do redsox fans and yankees fans who have never met get into brawls? why are non catholics creating a thread directed against catholics and catholisism as a whole?

[A_C_Slater]

What is the message of Catholicism?

It seems to me that there is no message.

Just a bunch of pomp and ceremonial rituals.

[brassnuts]

[ QUOTE ]
now all you gotta do is figure out how to prove that god is fake.

[/ QUOTE ]

GOD = 1/0

[beset7]

I'm sure all of the catholics out there in the trenches in the third world feeding the hungry, working for justice and givin their lives for the impoverished are real concerned about what some half-wit like you thinks of their liturgical practices.

Even atheist liberals who work in social justice and activism who are anti-religious intellectually will tell you what good catholics both inside and outside the hierarchy are doing around the world. What have you done lately?

Yeah. I'm sure all the students, nuns and laypeople aiding the dying poor in Jakarta as we speak are living very "sedate" lives. Or the radical priests ministering to the rebels in Chiapas. Or the underground church in China, risking death to celebrate mass. You should read "The Power and The Glory" my Graham Greene (a womanizer, drug addict and reluctant catholic convert).

Also, just curious, how does the following statement make ANY sense whatsoever?

[ QUOTE ]
I don't really hate anything. But I hate catholics.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you made the same statement about Jews or black people everyone would flip out. But instead everyone just ignores how horrible it is. You are talking about the world religious majority. Do you realize how many peope that is? How could say such a thing? You are a bigot and a sad sad person.

[A_C_Slater]

Jews or blacks don't choose to be black or jewish. Catholics have a choice. And the only reason they engage in empathic activities like helping the poor is for their own self glorification. They think it assures them a seat in heaven. Never would they help another anonymously. It is always done in the spirit of appeasing the eyes of onlookers. Never is it done in the genuine spirit of man.

Spirtual whores.

[beset7]

[ QUOTE ]
Jews or blacks don't choose to be black or jewish. Catholics have a choice. And the only reason they engage in empathic activities like helping the poor is for their own self glorification. They think it assures them a seat in heaven. Never would they help another anonymously. It is always done in the spirit of appeasing the eyes of onlookers. Never is it done in the genuine spirit of man.

Spirtual whores.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is so horrid I know not what to say. Most of the work Catholic social workers, activists and priests do in the world is visible only to those it benefits: the poor, the hungry and the oppressed.

Secondly, very few Catholics actually made the choice to join the Catholic church. It is a cultural and ethnic religious heritage very similar to Judaism. Whether irish, latino, italian, spanish, it is apart of our ethnicity and cultural heritage just as much as it is a set of beliefs and practices.

Once again: you are a bigot. But, at least you are the type of bigot that is currently socially acceptable, right? You would have been goose-stepping with the hitler youth I'm sure (save the Cardinal Ratzinger come-back. I never said I liked the new pope).

[Mr Mojo Risin]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
now all you gotta do is figure out how to prove that god is fake.

[/ QUOTE ]

GOD = 1/0

[/ QUOTE ]

Prove to me god is real, then give god the point. It is imposible to prove that god does not exist, just like it is imposible to prove that god actually does exist.

When will people realize that all religions were created to explain things that crappy acient technology couldn't? People had questions so they came up with answers, and religion was born. If you look at all religions, a lot of it answers questions that we now have science to answer. It has evolved into a way to teach people to be good people. Which I don't mind, religion has helped guide people through life and has taught many people how to be nice good caring people. But I do not like that it has yet to evolve the ability to change those values based on current views. Also, another thing that bugs me about religion is that it gives people a sense that they are better than you. When people try and push their beliefs and rules onto me they can go f*ck themselves. Trying to put their religion into legislation is worse because they are forcing their views onto people. (Like that school district in Kansas i think it is that wants to have all the text books edited to teach creationism next to evolution in SCIENCE classes, thats not a science.) Religion, Catholosism too, has done some many good things in the past, but I feel that they have failed to evolve properly and are becoming outdated.

[Mr Mojo Risin]

[ QUOTE ]
Jews or blacks don't choose to be black or jewish. Catholics have a choice.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you know what a Jew is? Retard.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
you say you don't like catholics because the church did immoral things in the past. just because you're german does that mean you burned jews?? NO. just because some1 is catholic does not mean they sold indulgences or touched little boys

[/ QUOTE ]

There's a difference between being born German and being born catholic. They aren't even in the same ballpark. One you can change later on, the other you can't.

b

[sirio11]

[ QUOTE ]
And the only reason they engage in empathic activities like helping the poor is for their own self glorification. They think it assures them a seat in heaven. Never would they help another anonymously. It is always done in the spirit of appeasing the eyes of onlookers. Never is it done in the genuine spirit of man.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is just and simply not true.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
Jews or blacks don't choose to be black or jewish.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, Jews can choose their religion also, just not their race.

[ QUOTE ]
And the only reason they engage in empathic activities like helping the poor is for their own self glorification. They think it assures them a seat in heaven. Never would they help another anonymously. It is always done in the spirit of appeasing the eyes of onlookers. Never is it done in the genuine spirit of man.

[/ QUOTE ]

This isn't true. I'm about as anti-organized religion as they come, especially against the catholic church, and I don't see this. There are many christians (may as well lump em all for the point being made) who are genuinely good people. I'd say easily the great majority of them are as are most people in the world.

There are many great people who are muslim contrary to some beliefs today. An A-Hole is an A-Hole no matter what race or religion they are. And vice versa.

The church itself, however, is open game. And deservedly so.

b

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
Secondly, very few Catholics actually made the choice to join the Catholic church.

[/ QUOTE ]

They have the choice of leaving the church. You can't leave being black or german or korean.

b

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
The pope would look like the biggest jackass

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the ones who'd look like jackasses are the ones who really shove it down your throat. The real militant ones that will preach relentlessly while condemning everyone who believes differently.

b

[Nalapoint1]

I spent 5 years in a jesuit high school. Catholocism is all about money.

[Wozza]

This may be obvious, but it needs to be stated...

We are all creatures of our environment. If you had been born 4000 years ago in Egypt, you would have believed in Isis et al. If you had been born in Scandinavia a thousand years back you'd have believed in Odin.

Wherever and whenever you are born, what you believe in is generally a medley of what other people have believed before you.

Life is WAY too short to sort out these matters individually. Were your parents catholic? Jewish? Bhuddist? Chances are you are too.

I have problems with people who don't question the status quo. If you are a catholic/jew/bhuddist by virtue of your upbringing and do not question the reasons for your belief, then you will always be able to look forward to having an argument with me.

Although I know (and respect) people who have accepted their (inherited) religion without question, the fact is that I seriously question their inate intelligence.

[beset7]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Secondly, very few Catholics actually made the choice to join the Catholic church.

[/ QUOTE ]

They have the choice of leaving the church. You can't leave being black or german or korean.

b

[/ QUOTE ]

It's true one can leave the church and this probably the most authentic decision that many Catholics have ever made and more should do it.

But, on the other hand, I know many cultural catholics who haven't attended mass except for perhaps a wedding or funeral for decades and still "feel catholic." Usually, these are individuals with fairly recent (less then 3 generations) history of immigration within their families. Although it isn't quite the same as being culturally jewish, it is similar.

My point being that when one says "I hate catholics" they are saying more then just "I hate fundamentalist freaky religious people." Many people self-identify as Catholic for non-religious reasons (socio-cultural). Just like a largely non-religous Jew who shows up for passover dinner and Bar Mitzvahs.

To me, this makes anti-Catholic bigotry somewhat more unsettling. To hear such a large group of people mocked and reduced to a dismissable cartoon which is so inaccurate and narrow; it betrays a sort of insiduous WASP ethnic prejudice that is absolutely revolting and pathetic.

We dress ourselves up as so accepting, but not much has changed since the Irish were spit on as the landed on the eastern shores, it's just more subtle now. The sniffling masses and their peasant religon; so uncultured! And those dumb mexicans geez don't get me started.

[beset7]

[ QUOTE ]

We are all creatures of our environment. If you had been born 4000 years ago in Egypt, you would have believed in Isis et al. If you had been born in Scandinavia a thousand years back you'd have believed in Odin.


[/ QUOTE ]

Generally I agree but I have to sound a tone in defense of absolute freedom. In every generation there is a handful of minds who realize they are perfectly free and no matter how unsettling this may be, they make authentic decisions.

That people get obsessed with what cultural mythological context this expressed within is just another bit of human drama. There were authentic Odin worshippers just like their are authentic Christians. Truth is absurd so religon has just as much of a shot at it, if not more so, then empirical reasoning.

Nice post btw.

[David Sklansky]

"In every generation there is a handful of minds who realize they are perfectly free and no matter how unsettling this may be, they make authentic decisions"

The easiest way to have one of those minds is to learn and truly understand math and logic. And if you do and are not under the grip of some sort of psychological illness, you would never choose any of the specific religions yet put forth.

[Piers]

Don’t worry the Pope’s safe.

To prove something you need to express it in a form that renders proof possible. So I guess your right.

[FiReSiStAnT]

[ QUOTE ]
My point is, you can't prove anything. But the idea, is funny.

[/ QUOTE ]

...thats a really bad/idiotic point

[LINES]

If the world that we belive is to be fake, than anything is possible. But nothing is possible, prove that god exists to me, please... then say it's idiotic

[Little Fishy]

[ QUOTE ]
The easiest way to have one of those minds is to learn and truly understand math and logic. And if you do and are not under the grip of some sort of psychological illness, you would never choose any of the specific religions yet put forth

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree there have been great minds (including mathematicians) who accepted and practiced organized religion.

I don't know the religious views of many modern mathematicians, but off the top of my head lets name a few who ascribe to organized religion: Gottfried Leibniz, Bernhard Riemann... ok well I can't think of that many but I can't think of many mathematicians either...

also i read that something like 40% of scientist hold religeous beliefs... does that mean that at least 40% of scientists don't understand logical thinking??

[ QUOTE ]
specific religions

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess this is the key element of your post that you will fall back on in defence. ie there are so many religions how can one be right, so much unexplained etc. etc.

the thing that a lot of the linear thinking in this forum fails to grasp is that in order for one religion to be true does not mean that other religions will not be true. I understand that religious leaders preach the idea that their religion is the only true one, but I don't think that any religion at it's core trully teaches these ideas... people will probably respond with well the bible says "christ is the light of the world " and it teaches that forgiveness is through the son... these ideas however do not mean that either christianity or other religions must be 'wrong' the key to this is: "christ died for all the world" so that "all who have faith in him might be saved" the term him in the bible is very ambiguous it refers to Chrits the son, God the father and the Holy Spirit many christians in all the churches understand that you can have faith in the father and through him christ and thus be saved without actualy knowing about his saving power or believing that christ is who saved you... Sure there are plenty of christians who claim that their particular faith is the only true faith, however through carefull reading of the scriptures with a skeptical mind, there arguments for this can be shown invalid... I challenge posters to post passages here that 'prove' that christianity excludes all other religions and we'll see just how sharp I am... I feel that most religions of the world can be a usefull guid that with faith should ultimatly bring you to the same place the difference among them is the route you choose to take and the scenery along the way...

[RedManPlus]

Logic is the cornerstone of theology.

That's why as someone with a strong math background...
Judeo-Christian theology has always come very easily for me.

With all due respect...
What Mr.Sklansky is really saying...
Is that he believes that he is a very, very special person...
And that he is a Slave to his Ego.

At the core of all major religions...
Is sacrifice and denial of self...
(Often in the form of loving service to others)...
In order to achieve a measure of freedom...
From the tyrannies of the Material World.

rm+

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[Little Fishy]

[ QUOTE ]
Like that school district in Kansas i think it is that wants to have all the text books edited to teach creationism next to evolution in SCIENCE classes, thats not a science

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty sure they call it intelligent design now... I agree that many people try to force their views unjustly on others but i don't think that this should be fualted to religion. being a moderate/realist growing up in new england, ideas about the maleability of human nature were shoved down my throat daily... I disagreed and got attacked by classrooms full of ultra liberals... now evidence shows that human nature isn't a blank slate and human universals do exist...
I think those fenatics would exist whether religion existed or not, just their medium and language would be differnt.

religion as itself is not bad and by the confines of our world cannot be shown to be true or false, what corrupts it is certain people who ascribe to it... however lumping all those people together would be unjust.

[NotReady]

[ QUOTE ]

ok well I can't think of that many but I can't think of many mathematicians either...


[/ QUOTE ]

Bayes was a Christian minister.

The bias and discrimination practiced by the scientific communtiy is so thick today a scientist is virtually committing professional suicide if he admits to being a Christian.

[gasgod]

[ QUOTE ]
The bias and discrimination practiced by the scientific communtiy is so thick today a scientist is virtually committing professional suicide if he admits to being a Christian.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you admit to the possibility that this professional suicide is not the result of "bias and discrimination"?

Could it be that admitting to being a Christian brands one's self as being a poor thinker?

GG

[NotReady]

Are you saying Bayes was a poor thinker?

[SittingBull]

Developed mathematics based on logic is a tool invented by humans to attempt to explain reality.
However,every system,thus for,is incomplete. Einstein's system modified Newton's system ;Newton's system modified Galileo's system,etc.
Our most up to date system is still incomplete in explaining all of reality. The human mind,as great as it is,is still incapable of understanding many phenomena of life. I believe that one day humans will advance so much that MOST,if not ALL,will believe that God does not exist. /images/graemlins/blush.gif
MOST of them will practice humanism. /images/graemlins/frown.gif
SittingBull

[gasgod]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you saying Bayes was a poor thinker?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, of course not. Your reply is simply a red herring. Can you attempt to answer the question I asked?


GG

[AKQJ10]

[ QUOTE ]
The bias and discrimination practiced by the scientific communtiy is so thick today a scientist is virtually committing professional suicide if he admits to being a Christian.

[/ QUOTE ]

As a casual glance at the post below the one I'm replying to shows, there exists at least anecdotal evidence of anti-Christian intellectual snootiness. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

However, I don't buy the assertion I excerpted. I heard Francis Collins (http://www.genome.gov/10000779), director of the National Human Genome Research Institute, speak at Harvard on his worldview, which is unabashedly both theistic and evolutionist. Just because the small-minded may believe that scientific inquiry and theism are incompatible doesn't mean that the entire scientific community shares that bias.

[NotReady]

Which red herring would that be?

[AKQJ10]

[ QUOTE ]
Your reply is simply a red herring.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not at all. If acknowledging a Christian worldview "brands onesself a poor thinker," and Bayes acknowledged such a worldview, then it follows that Bayes is branded a poor thinker. If Bayes wasn't a poor thinker then your premise can't be true.

Hell, I never took Logic 101 and I find that easy to follow. Your attempt to label a very logical argument as a red herring is in fact a red herring.

[NotReady]

Bravo.
Sometimes you really gotta spell it out.

[gasgod]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Your reply is simply a red herring.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not at all. If acknowledging a Christian worldview "brands onesself a poor thinker," and Bayes acknowledged such a worldview, then it follows that Bayes is branded a poor thinker. If Bayes wasn't a poor thinker then your premise can't be true.

Hell, I never took Logic 101 and I find that easy to follow. Your attempt to label a very logical argument as a red herring is in fact a red herring.

[/ QUOTE ]

The question I raised was not whether Bayes was a poor thinker. I asked whether the opinion of the scientific community was necessarily a biased opinion. The question of Bayes' thinking is simply irrelevant to my question, and therefore fits the description of a red herring.

By the way, I agree with you that the characterization of the attitude of the "scientific community" as being biased against Christianity is not necessarily accurate.

GG

[AKQJ10]

Point taken, there's a subtle difference between saying, "Bayes was a poor thinker," and "Bayes was considered by the scientific community to be a poor thinker."

Besides that, I think we're in violent agreement here. We seem to both agree that you can in fact espouse a Christian worldview and be taken seriously by the scientific community. I think it depends on what your attitude is toward scientific inquiry and how it fits into your Christianity.

Just to pick the example that seems to have sparked this:

Francis Collins might say, "We have experimental, empirical evidence demonstrating Darwinian macroevolution. Therefore I conclude that God used this means to develop the species."

Some of the Kansans might say, "The Bible says God created the species, and that's clearly incompatible with the evidence.* Therefore the evidence must be forged."

Of course that latter point of view is going to win you scorn in the scientific community, because it strikes at the heart of the scientific method. I can in some sense understand that point of view, but why bother with scientific investigation if you don't care about the outcome?


*I don't believe that, btw, but they appear to.

[gasgod]

I have to agree with this.

To clarify, I never meant to suggest that Christianity represented poor thinking because the scientific community thought so. I meant to challenge not ready's characterization that this (unsupported) assertion constituted bias.

GG

[NotReady]

Your orginal post was:
[ QUOTE ]

Can you admit to the possibility that this professional suicide is not the result of "bias and discrimination"?

Could it be that admitting to being a Christian brands one's
self as being a poor thinker?


[/ QUOTE ]


You appear to be saying that if someone is a Christian he is a poor thinker. Many people do say that expicitly. If you were not making that point, then I don't see what point you're trying to make. You are either saying beng a Christian means you are a poor thnker, or being a Christian brands you in the scientific community as a poor thinker. The latter interpretation would only be true if there is bias in the scientific community. If you don't think there's bias, what's the point of the second statement?

You also seem to be admitting in the first statement that being known as a Christian incurs professional suicide. At least, you assume so within the statement itself.

[gasgod]

[ QUOTE ]
Your orginal post was:
[ QUOTE ]

Can you admit to the possibility that this professional suicide is not the result of "bias and discrimination"?

Could it be that admitting to being a Christian brands one's
self as being a poor thinker?


[/ QUOTE ]


You appear to be saying that if someone is a Christian he is a poor thinker. Many people do say that expicitly. If you were not making that point, then I don't see what point you're trying to make. You are either saying beng a Christian means you are a poor thnker, or being a Christian brands you in the scientific community as a poor thinker. The latter interpretation would only be true if there is bias in the scientific community. If you don't think there's bias, what's the point of the second statement?

You also seem to be admitting in the first statement that being known as a Christian incurs professional suicide. At least, you assume so within the statement itself.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are reading more into my original post than I meant. If I may clarify:

You asserted that a scientist commits professional suicide by espousing Christianity. If this is true (and I don't necessarily think it is), then what justifies the judgement that this constitutes bias?

Let's suppose that I consider espousing Christianity as an example of weak thinking. (This is in fact true.) Does it necessarily follow that I believe all thoughts of all Christians are necessarily false? No, of course not. It is perfectly possible for a person to harbor genius in one field of endeavor, yet be foolish in another.

GG

[NotReady]

But if there isn't bias in science why would being a Christian brand someone as a poor thinker?

[gasgod]

[ QUOTE ]
But if there isn't bias in science why would being a Christian brand someone as a poor thinker?

[/ QUOTE ]

There is no connection between bias in science, and Christianity being an example of poor thinking. Christianity is an example of poor thinking because there is insufficient evidence for it. (IMO)

GG

[chesspain]

.

[Zeno]

Your comments are ill concieved.

A general comment to all:

Have any of you ever submitted a paper to a scientific journal? Do any of you know how the peer review system works? Do any of you know how the science review system works in getting grant money?

There is some bias in science as in all human endeavors but it is keep to a bare minimum in scientific inquiry. And the small amount of frivolous bias that does exist is more likely to stem from scientists that have competing views or are vying for dollars to do research, it has absolutely nothing to do with religious views.

People outside of the science community, of course, may hold all sorts of views about the scientists that do reaseach.

-Zeno

And yes, I have submitted papers to science journals etc.

[NotReady]

This sub-thread began as a response to a Sklansky post which implied that Christians are "under the grip of some sort of psychological illness". I consider that the main concept under discussion. It also indicates a certain bias.

As to scientific bias, I'm not interested in pursuing that any further. I believe it can be easily established, but anyone who is interested will have to do the leg work themselves. Trying to prove it is like trying to prove the mainstream media is biased. It's crystal clear to most, but can never be established to those who are in denial. And it isn't of much importance with respect to the main issues.

[Zeno]

You believe?

I see this is a waste of time. Mine and yours.

-Zeno

[RedManPlus]

This is an excellent point...
The attempt by people to "explain reality".

It's at the very core of all spirituality.

Science and mathematics and humanism...
Have made only minor inroads in this regard...
Perhaps 5% of "reality" can be explained...
(Perhaps 10% of diseases can be explained and cured)...
And even this pittance of knowledge...
Is available only to a ** select few **.

But to a sophisticated Christian believer...
Life and it's challenges and death make perfect sense...
And what is unclear...
Well...
God has every right to be mysterious in any regard.

And very importantly...
This enlightenment is available to the common man...
Not only to a select few with higher IQs and education.

If you only knew a few spiritually mature people personally...
You would understand.

(That idiot Jesus spamming 2+2...
Is hardly representative.

He is a thief.

He breaks his user agreement...
He steals Mel Gibson's images...
He steals someone's bandwidth...
He shows no respect towards others...
All "in the name of God").

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