ADD and Poker

[AKQJ10]

I just purchased ADD on the Job by Lynn Weiss, Ph. D. Much in this book resonates with me and gives me hope that I can one day find a work environment that will meet my needs. What brings me to post about it on 2+2, though, is the following passage:


[ QUOTE ]
The same trait of hypersensitivity, though, probably makes you good at figuring out all kinds of problems. When you are talking to others, you can figure out a lot about them by what they're saying. Also, you are sensitive to what they don't tell you; you can even pick up on things the don't necessarily want you to know about. You often can figure out the next move someone else is going to make.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've written in the margin, "poker!".

Also, elsewhere she discusses keeping your hands busy while trying to pay attention in a meeting. I think this is why I find myself much more attentive at B&M poker than online; I can play with the chips all day.

Discuss. /images/graemlins/smile.gif


-----
Note: I searched for ADHD -- "ADD" seemed useless as a search term -- and found this thread, which wasn't really on my topic: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1635996&page=&view=&sb=5& o=&fpart=1&vc=1

Keywords: ADHD, Attention Deficit Disorder

[LINES]

I swear i have ADD, because my mind is always wondering off when i'm at the table, or anywhere else. Whenever i feel like 'im going to think about something else within 10 other things, i'll pinch my leg and i'm back at the table. Sometimes, i'll walk away limping. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

This book seems interesting... i might pick it up later

[Demana]

Find a job you love doing.

There's nothing else to it...

[TheVitaleMob]

I have been diagnosed ADD. This post intrigued me very much. Until recently, I have not had any medication to help fix the problem, but here I am now, 20 years old and taking ridalin. You mentioned that you can play with your chips all day at a b-m cardroom. Personally, I can't stand not fidgiting in real life, but in poker, I will riffle my chips from the instant I fold to the instant my next cards are dealt. I never riffle them during a hand. It has been said that when there is a talky player at the table, his tell is when he shuts up. The same goes for riffling chips. If you do it all the time, the tell is when you stop. In the post you linked to, one of the people talked about a cue to come back to attention. That could be a tool for you to use not only at the beginning of the hand, but during the hand as well. Sometimes I have to look at my cards once every street to remember what I have. I frequently have to actually speak my card values in my mind to remember them. The best thing to do I think, is to create a script in your head (play by play, etc.) for awhile, and then it should become easier as the script is learned. Also, making book at the table may help.

I know this was a little random, but I hope it helps. Good Luck

[Wally Weeks]

Huh? I couldn't finish your post because I kept on getting distracted by replying to your post first. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

There might be something to the hypersensitivity thing. Most people are good at filtering out "noise" that may or may not be important. It would probably be helpful for reading tells, etc.

Wally

[LaGarde]

AKQJ10.

You've touched on an important issue for a number of card players I know. I've tried many things because I don't like the medications available.

As far as suggestions for remaining focused at the card table I've settled for a strictly regulated table break. I set my cell phone to alert me (on vibrate) every 50 mins. I get up from the table and take a walk, go to the bathroom...Just to clear my head. I take this time to review my play and to clarify my reads on the people at the table.

I've found that when I don't do this I suffer greatly about 1.5 hours into the session.

If anyone else has any suggestions I'd love to hear them

[bernie]

Im textbook (oldschool, not overdiagnosed)ADD. Not extreme to where I have a tick or am twitching or anything, I had that to some degree as a kid. More-so just thought-wise now in adult form.

Another thing is to learn how to watch a hand. There's lots of info available that can keep your mind busy once you learn how to do it.

Learning how to center your focus and concentrate helps also.

b

[BigBaitsim (milo)]

[ QUOTE ]
AKQJ10.

You've touched on an important issue for a number of card players I know. I've tried many things because I don't like the medications available.

As far as suggestions for remaining focused at the card table I've settled for a strictly regulated table break. I set my cell phone to alert me (on vibrate) every 50 mins. I get up from the table and take a walk, go to the bathroom...Just to clear my head. I take this time to review my play and to clarify my reads on the people at the table.

I've found that when I don't do this I suffer greatly about 1.5 hours into the session.

If anyone else has any suggestions I'd love to hear them

[/ QUOTE ]

There are two classes of meds available. One class is essentially long-acting speed. It works well for most, and at doses that do not make the individual "high." The second is Strattera. It seems to work for fewer people, but is chemically related to the antidepressants, and not to the stimulants. I suspect they treat two seperate diseases that look the same. We just don't understand the brain terribly well yet.

Most importantly, the diagnosis of ADHD requires symptoms to be present prior to age 8. In other words, it NEVER develops in the teen years or later. If you were asymptomatic prior to the teen years, then developed symptoms you do not have ADHD.

-Dr. Milo

[Little Fishy]

Did you know that there is a positive correlation between ADD, ADHD and hyuperactivity in children and future gamblign addiction as adults?

not saying you're at risk of becoming a PG, but i thought it was interesting.

[RyGreen18]

i have been diagonsed ADHD, and i take adderall, which i believe has really helped me 4-tabling abilities. although i haven't kept track of it, i feel like i play much better when im on adderall than when im not, does anyone else feel the same (or different)?

[poker-penguin]

Also, elsewhere she discusses keeping your hands busy while trying to pay attention in a meeting. I think this is why I find myself much more attentive at B&M poker than online; I can play with the chips all day.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or have some chips on your desk like I do. Best of both worlds. Plus you can play with yourself online, it's more difficult B+M

[billyjex]

[ QUOTE ]
Find a job you love doing.

There's nothing else to it...

[/ QUOTE ]

you make that sound a lot easier than it is

[AKQJ10]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Find a job you love doing.

There's nothing else to it...

[/ QUOTE ]

you make that sound a lot easier than it is

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep... Like saying that poker's easy. You just have to figure out how your opponent[s] would play if they could see your cards, and then induce them to do the opposite. Nothing to it.

I appreciate the well-intentioned advice, and if I can figure out how to get paid to do something i love (besides play poker!) then i will certainly take that advice to heart. Maybe that's fodder for another thread.

[Utah]

Hey, do the drugs help? I was just diagnosed with ADD at age 36. I havent started the drugs yet but I will in about 2 weeks. I sure hope the drugs help because I am one fidgety guy. lol.

[Demana]

[ QUOTE ]
if I can figure out how to get paid to do something i love

[/ QUOTE ]

So what is it that you love doing?

[Demana]

Re: ADD & Drugs

You can control ADD, ADHD, OCD, or Tourettes through hard work and determination. Drugs are a doctors's easy way out of treatment and have the side effect of making you dependent on the drugs.

[Aytumious]

[ QUOTE ]
Re: ADD & Drugs

You can control ADD, ADHD, OCD, or Tourettes through hard work and determination. Drugs are a doctors's easy way out of treatment and have the side effect of making you dependent on the drugs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Although drugs are over prescribed for these afflictions, this is still some very bad advice.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
Drugs are a doctors's easy way out of treatment and have the side effect of making you dependent on the drugs

[/ QUOTE ]

For many, the doctors misdiagnose because it's easier than actually finding out the real problem. That I agree with and it's rampant.

You do not necesarily become dependent on drugs. I didn't.

[ QUOTE ]
You can control ADD, ADHD, OCD, or Tourettes through hard work and determination

[/ QUOTE ]

Some can't. Even as adults. When I was a kid, I couldn't.

b

[FiReSiStAnT]

Just take mad adderoll

Im so good when im juiced off that [censored]
so focused on everything

its all in the drugs man...

[montechristo]

of course the adderol helps you 4-table better, you can click so freaking fast! seriously though - I always thought I had some sort of attention disorder but have never been diagnosed, I have taken both adderol and ritalin recreationally and found that both improved my focus and concentration. I felt pretty cracked out from the adderol though.

[chson]

All my unambitious and lazy friends suffer from ADD.

[AKQJ10]

I take it that this is supposed to be a slam, that "ADD" is just a pseudoscientific cover for sloth and lack of ambition?

Even if that was your intent (and forgive me if it wasn't), you unwittingly made a very important point: society has labeled many of us as lazy and unambitious when the reality has nothing to do with either of those attributes.

I know for a fact that I'm ambitious; I have been given a great deal of innate ability and I aspire to use it to its fullest. I also know that I'm not lazy; when a worthwhile goal inspires me, I can be very tenacious in its pursuit.

It's finding something that inspires me long enough to see it through that's the problem. However, I take it you see the whole topic as a big whine-fest, so it's probably best that I just drop it with you.

[AKQJ10]

[ QUOTE ]
So what is it that you love doing?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well... in some sense that's the problem, as i love lots of things. Or at least i find lots of things interesting, although i'm not sure if i LOVE any of them enough to sustain a career.

To hijack the question a bit to make it relevant to others, though, what i love about poker is (1) analytical thinking (2)observation of other people with a goal of predicting their actions. From the book I mentioned at the outset, it seems that ADD people make good counselors and therapists for reasons corresponding to (2), and obviously to some extent (1). Counseling, broadly speaking, is a career i've thought of; perhaps it merits further consideration?

[PokerProdigy]

I have heard of some college students who take ritalin because it makes them concentrate better. I bet it would do the same with poker. I would never try it, but I am curious why it has this effect.

[AgentBishop]

[ QUOTE ]
All my unambitious and lazy friends suffer from ADD.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just what are you trying to say? You are only showing your ignorance on the matter. Your "friends" who have ADD act that way because they are overwhelmed and discouraged by the thought of what goes along with that task. They only see the forest, not the trees like everyone else. I don't think you could understand unless you are ADHD/ADD or are a doctor with experience in ADHD.

I have ADHD and you haven't a clue.

[AgentBishop]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey, do the drugs help? I was just diagnosed with ADD at age 36. I havent started the drugs yet but I will in about 2 weeks. I sure hope the drugs help because I am one fidgety guy. lol.

[/ QUOTE ]

I take Concerta and I'm still working on the right dose. I take the 54mg now and don't seem to be getting the expected or desired results. Next dose is 72mg and for some reason I'm a bit hesitant. I don't think the results would outweigh the other things that go along with it. I might try another Rx such as Adderall and see if that helps get the desired effects.

Also, check out this site ADD forums (http://www.addforums.com/forums/)

[reubenf]

That's really interesting I think I'll pick up a copy of the book because I've been beginning to suspect I

[AgentBishop]

[ QUOTE ]
That's really interesting I think I'll pick up a copy of the book because I've been beginning to suspect I

[/ QUOTE ]

poor attempt at humor I must say.

[FlopMe]

http://www.livejournal.com/users/groanblog/

This might be of interest to all poker players. Groan discusses using some prescription medication similar to the drugs prescribed to adults with ADD. If you read the "comments" section, Paul Phillips chimes in about his use of Adderall, which is prescribed for ADD. Both of them agree that the use of these drugs affect their poker game in a positive way.

[ZeusXIX]

Most medications for ADD/ADHD are stimulants and studies have shown that certain stimulants enhance a person's ability to perform almost any task. This is one reason why U.S. military pilots used to be (maybe still are) given stimulant medication before they go out on some missions. I was prescribed Ritilin at a young age and it certainly helped my performance in school. I have used ADD medication while at the poker table on several occasions and I believe it has positively affected my play. However, these drugs have many side effects that you can read about.

One side effect that you probably will only hear from first hand accounts is that fact that these drugs make you feel pretty crappy. It's not that you are depressed while under the influence of these stimulants, but you have a difficulty simply enjoying life. For example, if somebody makes a funny remark you may want to laugh but for some reason you can not seem to do it genuinely. Therefore, you need to think about why you play poker and weigh that against the effects the drug may have on you. I'd be interested to know what Dr. Al has to say about this, being a more informed source on the subject.

Zeus XIX

p.s. I wouldn't try any of these drugs w/o talking to a doctor about them first. As innocent as it may seem, it is in fact speed you are putting into your body.

[AgentBishop]

[ QUOTE ]
Most medications for ADD/ADHD are stimulants and studies have shown that certain stimulants enhance a person's ability to perform almost any task. This is one reason why U.S. military pilots used to be (maybe still are) given stimulant medication before they go out on some missions. I was prescribed Ritilin at a young age and it certainly helped my performance in school. I have used ADD medication while at the poker table on several occasions and I believe it has positively affected my play. However, these drugs have many side effects that you can read about.

One side effect that you probably will only hear from first hand accounts is that fact that these drugs make you feel pretty crappy. It's not that you are depressed while under the influence of these stimulants, but you have a difficulty simply enjoying life. For example, if somebody makes a funny remark you may want to laugh but for some reason you can not seem to do it genuinely. Therefore, you need to think about why you play poker and weigh that against the effects the drug may have on you. I'd be interested to know what Dr. Al has to say about this, being a more informed source on the subject.

Zeus XIX

p.s. I wouldn't try any of these drugs w/o talking to a doctor about them first. As innocent as it may seem, it is in fact speed you are putting into your body.

[/ QUOTE ]

Zeus XIX
Yes, the military gives stimulants to pilots but not just for concentration. For overall alertness because of the lack of sleep they sometimes endure.

Most all drugs have side effects. Read read read before you try anything, not just ADHD meds. There are many drugs for ADHD with many different active ingredients. Just know what your taking and the risks involved. And they are more like cocaine then speed.

Some ADHD drugs make some people feel "crappy" some don't. Some make you very depressed some don't. It depends on the drug, the person, the dose, and many other variables. What they WON'T do is make you feel like a million bucks with crystal clear thinking and super concentration abilities.