Empire is not Closing Accounts because of the Bonus

[Timer]

I find this very humorous. The majority concensus is that all of these account closings are due to bonus chasing. That's some paranoia. Why would they close accounts because you go after some silly $100 bonus? They are offering the bonus to get an influx of players back to the site, and to reward the regular players. The bonus is not free; you have to work for it. so if it's 1000 hands for $100 then they're paying you .10¢ a hand to shill their site. Not all players go after the bonus. I'd be willing to bet a large percentage of players don't even have the requisite buy-in to chase a bonus. This bonus whoring reason just seems so silly to me. No one can convince me that Empire cares about this.

These sites make money when they give away a bonus a far as I'm concerned. It makes no sense to close accounts for that reason.

It does make sense to close accouts of those who are playing on multiple skins or from the same IP address. This seems to be the trend. Consolidation.

So bonus hunters relax these are not shady online casinos but very solvent poker operations, and they don't give one whit about you silly little bonus whores.

Something else is going on.

[Stew]

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I find this very humorous. The majority concensus is that all of these account closings are due to bonus chasing. That's some paranoia. Why would they close accounts because you go after some silly $100 bonus? They are offering the bonus to get an influx of players back to the site, and to reward the regular players. The bonus is not free; you have to work for it. so if it's 1000 hands for $100 then they're paying you .10¢ a hand to shill their site. Not all players go after the bonus. I'd be willing to bet a large percentage of players don't even have the requisite buy-in to chase a bonus. This bonus whoring reason just seems so silly to me. No one can convince me that Empire cares about this.

These sites make money when they give away a bonus a far as I'm concerned. It makes no sense to close accounts for that reason.

It does make sense to close accouts of those who are playing on multiple skins or from the same IP address. This seems to be the trend. Consolidation.

So bonus hunters relax these are not shady online casinos but very solvent poker operations, and they don't give one whit about you silly little bonus whores.

Something else is going on.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would tend to agree with you, but from I can gather of those who have been closed on over at BW, they are closing accounts of those that DO NOT have gnomes or did not sign-up under an affiliate.

So, I'm still under the conclusion that they are closing accounts of bonus abusers, gnomes or not, affiliates or not.

[FishHooks]

Most people that chase bonuses, are playing on multiple skins, so they are indirectly related.

[PokerBob]

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Most people that chase bonuses, are playing on multiple skins, so they are indirectly related.

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bingo

[Benholio]

Woot, more empire threads!

There are about a dozen threads where this comment would have been appropriate...

[solucky]

They are offering the bonus to get an influx of players back to the site, and to reward the regular players..........................That all is right but seems so far Empire make a net-profit......and now they start to loose money. Any Onlinecasino kick you out if they recognize that you are a BONUS - Abuser. I absolute understand empire if they close this 1 week 700 hand-players. I am sure earlier or later we will see more a loyalyty system like 300$ for 6000 hands.

[peregrine]

Why would they care about multiple-skins?

[Freudian]

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Something else is going on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Surely you must understand that someone like me (who has played every reload there for ages, playing only limit .5/1 and 1/2 limit) has cost them money?

Wouldn't it make sense to get rid of accounts that have cost them money in the past and is bound to cost them money in the future? After all I have (via bonuses) been given 15 chances to become a regular player by now. Both them and I know it won't happen.

My Empire account is still open, but I expect them to get to it sooner rather than later.

[UncleDuke]

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These sites make money when they give away a bonus a far as I'm concerned. It makes no sense to close accounts for that reason.

It does make sense to close accouts of those who are playing on multiple skins or from the same IP address. This seems to be the trend. Consolidation.


[/ QUOTE ]

I tend to agree that even if they lose money to certain people due to bonus-chasing, it's probably a small amount compared to their total income. Still, it's quite possible that they want to cut down on this.

As to playing on multiple skins, I can't see why they (Party, since they're the basis for all the skins) would care, other than if it's costing them money. The only way I can see that costing them money is through people getting bonuses on multiple sites. In some cases, it will actually cost them money to limit people to one skin since there are players (often high volume and/or high stakes players) who play more than 4 tables and therefore need more than one skin since you can only play 4 tables per account at one time.

[Timer]

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Something else is going on.

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Surely you must understand that someone like me (who has played every reload there for ages, playing only limit .5/1 and 1/2 limit) has cost them money?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I don't understand this. What little bit they lose on you they make up for by having more available games. Not everyone goes for the bonus or even understands them, especially at the micro limits. The more bodies on the sites the more games they can spread. Even if it does cost them some small amount it is a loss leader. Getting people into seats is the main priority. Some of the bonus hunters might get lucky playing and stick around to play some more after the bonus expires. It's business. They're not going to offer a bonus and then close your account because you take advantage of it. But let's say they want to get rid of players who have accounts at all of the skins, or players who play multiple accounts from the same IP address, or some other such matter. Now it's only coincidental that you are also a bonus chaser.

I have no idea why Empire is closing accounts. I'm 99% certain it's not because of bonus abuse.

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Wouldn't it make sense to get rid of accounts that have cost them money in the past and is bound to cost them money in the future?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think it makes sense to get rid of any customers other than cheaters. All they would have to do is not offer a bonus to those they consider to be bonus abusers. If you want to play on our site fine, but we have decided to exclude you from getting any bonus offers. But they haven't done this, which leads me to believe something else is amiss.


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After all I have (via bonuses) been given 15 chances to become a regular player by now. Both them and I know it won't happen.

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What does that tell you? It tells me they don't care, and if they did they would simply stop offering you bonuses. A very simple solution.

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My Empire account is still open, but I expect them to get to it sooner rather than later.

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If they do they do, but I don't think it will be because of the bonus.

[Leavenfish]

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As to playing on multiple skins, I can't see why they (Party, since they're the basis for all the skins) would care, other than if it's costing them money. The only way

[/ QUOTE ]

Here are my thoughts on this.

Perhaps you are not seeing the bigger picture here. With the exception (I think) of tournaments, all these 'skins' are portals to the same tables. Think of the possibilites of collusion/cheating.

The ONE thing these sites can not risk (for very long - and maybe that time has come) is the fear that people - new blood in particular - might have that cheating/collusion is a problem. We are dealing with money afterall...

It's also making some sites way too tight for the 'non-whoring' people. When everyone starts to tighten up, there is less rake and therefore less profit. If I am right, I think the Cryptos will soon follow suit. You can't get a good $1/2 table there now (it's hard--there are so few anyway) without it being filled with tight bonus whores. I think that's possibly why Interpoker has created smaller limits. At those limits, bonuses are not going to be clearable so now others can play...and actually PLAY. Let the whores 'play' amongst themselves. If so, I don't think that's a good solution however but if it lessens the whores, perhaps more people will play $1/2 again.

Enforcing a one skin per person/IP address might just be the best way they can see to deal with the cheating possibilites...and that might just help (at Cryptos in particular) keep the non-whoring players happy and playing at their sites.

---Leavenfish

[dabluebery]

I have NO idea where to put this, because this whole forum is crapped up with Empire threads. I didn't want to worry about having this cloud over my head, so I emailed Empire directly about my account, preemptively striking so I could clear some things up.

My emails said........ "I play at Empire and other sites, and I always take advantage of the reloads. I got scared and pulled all my money out when you starting closing accounts, and am not sure why you are doing this. Now that there's a reload coming that I want to take advantage of, what is the status of my account, and what should I do?

Their reply....

"Thank you for contacting customer support.

Some accounts have been closed by our management after investigations found that these accounts practiced suspicious and wrongful actions that we do not support at EmpirePoker.com.

We have NOT confiscated any monies and all players who have written to vip@empirepoker.com have been refunded.

We can assure you that your money is safe at Empire and would like you to continue to play and enjoy EmpirePoker, please feel free to deposit your money and take advantage of our reload bonus on Tuesday.

If you have any more concerns or suggestions please feel free to contact us."

So, it makes me feel a little better. I use Empire the most of any Party Skin, it's the only one I use when I'm not chasing a bonus. I typically play .50/1 through 2/4, and in recent months I'm pretty sure my Empire MGR is negative or break-even at best.

[threei]

I'm fairly sure the closing of accounts are "bonus hunters".

1. They put a $10 "bonus" in peoples accounts last month right before the reload bonus. This $10 cleared at 30x so in essence people (myself included)had to play an extra 300 hands to obtain the reload bonus.

2. A small affilliate here said his revenue model was changed by Empire from one time to mgr and empire cited the reason for this was that one of his people was a bonus hunter. He went from $113 to -3.

3. Most people who had thier accounts closed said they only played Empire during reload bonuses.

[Jman28]

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Most people that chase bonuses, are playing on multiple skins, so they are indirectly related.

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bingo

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So, I play multiple skins and never bonus whore. Am I in danger?

[NateDog]

[ QUOTE ]
I have NO idea where to put this, because this whole forum is crapped up with Empire threads. I didn't want to worry about having this cloud over my head, so I emailed Empire directly about my account, preemptively striking so I could clear some things up.

My emails said........ "I play at Empire and other sites, and I always take advantage of the reloads. I got scared and pulled all my money out when you starting closing accounts, and am not sure why you are doing this. Now that there's a reload coming that I want to take advantage of, what is the status of my account, and what should I do?

Their reply....

"Thank you for contacting customer support.

Some accounts have been closed by our management after investigations found that these accounts practiced suspicious and wrongful actions that we do not support at EmpirePoker.com.

We have NOT confiscated any monies and all players who have written to vip@empirepoker.com have been refunded.

We can assure you that your money is safe at Empire and would like you to continue to play and enjoy EmpirePoker, please feel free to deposit your money and take advantage of our reload bonus on Tuesday.

If you have any more concerns or suggestions please feel free to contact us."

So, it makes me feel a little better. I use Empire the most of any Party Skin, it's the only one I use when I'm not chasing a bonus. I typically play .50/1 through 2/4, and in recent months I'm pretty sure my Empire MGR is negative or break-even at best.

[/ QUOTE ]

I did the same thing and got the EXACT same email back.

[Hoopster81]

If you play multiple skins and never bonus whore, why would you care if they shut your Empire account down?

[Sephus]

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Most people that chase bonuses, are playing on multiple skins, so they are indirectly related.

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bingo

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So, I play multiple skins and never bonus whore. Am I in danger?

[/ QUOTE ]

wait, so you could click a few buttons and make an extra $100-$200, but you choose not to?

[Voltron87]

maybe he plays tourneys.

[Leavenfish]

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I'm fairly sure the closing of accounts are "bonus hunters".

1. They put a $10 "bonus" in peoples accounts last month right before the reload bonus. This $10 cleared at 30x so in essence people (myself included)had to play an extra 300 hands to obtain the reload bonus.

2. A small affilliate here said his revenue model was changed by Empire from one time to mgr and empire cited the reason for this was that one of his people was a bonus hunter. He went from $113 to -3.

3. Most people who had thier accounts closed said they only played Empire during reload bonuses.

[/ QUOTE ]

But does that make sense? I mean, they offer reload bonuses...clearly it must be okay in their eyes...then hit people over the head for taking them up on it???

---Leavenfish