Another moving on up thread and winrate

[aba20]

At what winrate, BB/100, would you think someone is ready to move from 5/10 up to 10/20 and 15/30? Or at what winrate will they be a winning player had the higher level. So as an exaple if I was at 1 BB/100 at 5/10 would I be a winning player are 10/20?

[stoxtrader]

if you had a *long-run* win rate of 1/100 at the 5/10, i would guess you would be a winner at 10/20.

[Equal]

Barely a winner I would think - someone where between 0.25-0.5bb/100.

[aba20]

and at what rate are the best players beating the 15/30 games?

[Equal]

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and at what rate are the best players beating the 15/30 games?

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A friend of mine, who is a solid winning 15 player thinks 4bb/100 is the max win rate for the Party 15 game. I tend to think the ceiling is somewhere above 3bb/100 but not 4. Maybe 3.5?

Of course a lot of the best players multi-table so they probably won't be maximizing their win rate.

[scotty34]

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Of course a lot of the best players multi-table so they probably won't be maximizing their win rate.

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I have been lurking the mid-high stakes forums a bit lately, and normally post down in the micros. Reading many of these hands and replies here, and I find the thought process of many of these players to be absolutely brilliant. Currently I am 4-tabling the Party 2/4 games, and playing essentially like a robot. "Bet the river for value every time," "Don't fold even when you are pretty sure you are beat," and basically following the advice in Ed Miller's SSH. I do aspire to go beyond this however, and I know you can't play like this and win at the higher levels. Eventually I would like to be playing the 15/30 game at Party myself.

I am curious as to how you guys are able to play with such a high level of thought. How many tables on average do you play? How can you think so well about a hand and a given opponent while playing 4 (or even 8??) tables at a time? I suppose a lot of it just comes with experience and study, but I'm just looking for a little insight into the minds of an expert high limit player.

[lil feller]

Threads like this are extremely annoying, nothing personal. Win rates from game to game or limit to limit are not related. If you make 1bb/100 in the 5/10 because you play too aggro and make too many moves against people that won't fold, you might do better in a bigger game where fancier plays are more likely to work. If your 1bb/100 in the 5/10 is coming from playing really tight and really passive and only betting for value, and then only when your hand is strong, you'll probably get slaughtered in the party 15/30.

Its not the limit that changes so much as the players and the style of play. If you can adjust your play to those of your opponents, or if your style is already suited to beat the new opponents you'll do fine. If not, you won't. To make a blanket statement about a 5/10 winrate transferring to a 15/30 or 10/20 is comparing apples and automotive parts...it just doesn't work.

lf

[Dantes]

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I am curious as to how you guys are able to play with such a high level of thought. How many tables on average do you play? How can you think so well about a hand and a given opponent while playing 4 (or even 8??) tables at a time? I suppose a lot of it just comes with experience and study, but I'm just looking for a little insight into the minds of an expert high limit player.

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Many of the people who multi table at the mid limits online survive simply because of two key things - they datamine and use automated player's notes programs, and they play marginally better ABC poker than their average opponent. Because of this they are able to grind out an average win rate of probably 1.5/100. This is basically peanuts. In a live 15/30 game this is $15 an hour.

Eventually there will come a day where IGM will realize that by allowing datamining and allowing (easy) player notes scripting they are causing the poorer players to lose faster and basically, hurting their overall bottom line. When that day comes I hope you guys know how to play poker instead of just cards.

[Nikla]

1.5 BB/100 is a healthy winrate in some of the higher online ringgames. It certainly isn't peanuts.

[bilyin]

This is a brilliant response. I dare say almost all winning 80/160 players can not beat the 4/8 games; and of course vice versa.

[mperich]

Youre hyperbolizing, right? =P

-Mike

[helpmeout]

Anything above 2bb/100 is good enough. You cant convert it into a rate at the higher limit though.

A person with a winrate of 2+ will likely have a small drop off while someone with a lower winrate of 1 will usually have a large drop off because of the increased skill needed for higher games.