Does Daniel N think Phil H. is a great or elite player?

[Smoothcall]

I always hear Daniel N. making comments on Phil H. not playing good. I can't think of any particular examples at the moment but i'm sure many fo you have heard alot of them. Well one i can think of was Daniel saying he would have rather played Phil. h. rather than Anotonio E. in they're headup matches for the headup championship. His reason being that Antonio E. thinks outside the box more than Phil H. But daniel has said much worse things. just can't think of them right now.

So how can this be? He would rather play Phil H. rather than Antonio E. When in the past i have been blasted for saying Phil H. is not a great poker player. And peoples reasons are his bracelets. Well daniel is aware of Phil's bracelets but gives the impression that Phil H. is not one of the elite or great players.

How do others feel about this? It seems Daniel N. has some of the same concerns that i do of Phil H's abiltiy. and whether he is great and elite. I got flamed for my comments. Lets see if Daniel gets flamed?

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
I always hear Daniel N. making comments on Phil H. not playing good. I can't think of any particular examples at the moment but i'm sure many fo you have heard alot of them. Well one i can think of was Daniel saying he would have rather played Phil. h. rather than Anotonio E. in they're headup matches for the headup championship. His reason being that Antonio E. thinks outside the box more than Phil H. But daniel has said much worse things. just can't think of them right now.

So how can this be? He would rather play Phil H. rather than Antonio E. When in the past i have been blasted for saying Phil H. is not a great poker player. And peoples reasons are his bracelets. Well daniel is aware of Phil's bracelets but gives the impression that Phil H. is not one of the elite or great players.

How do others feel about this? It seems Daniel N. has some of the same concerns that i do of Phil H's abiltiy. and whether he is great and elite. I got flamed for my comments. Lets see if Daniel gets flamed?

[/ QUOTE ]

Even if Daniel thought Phil was a good player, it could be that in a heads up match he feels like hes able to get a better read on Phil "master of the big laydown" than agasint an ultra-aggressive player like Antonio.

[willie]

also we're talking headsup play here alone.


for anyone not to respect helmuth as one of the best ever is kind of sad....

he's kind of fallen off in past years but he's still definitely got it.

[trying2learn]

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And peoples reasons are his bracelets.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes, what a silly bunch of nine reasons those are.


[ QUOTE ]
It seems Daniel N. has some of the same concerns that i do of Phil H's abiltiy. and whether he is great and elite. I got flamed for my comments. Lets see if Daniel gets flamed?

[/ QUOTE ]


and now you're comparing yourself and your opinions to that of Daniel's? sometimes you really go over the top smooth. dan has said that when Phil is on his game, he's one of the best nl tournament players ever. he's just said that recently he's been playing like a donkey.

you discrediting NINE bracelets, and saying that a guy isn't a world class player is what gets you flamed.

with all due respect, you should go into talk radio or something, because you are flat out a lightning rod for controversey and stirring #$%* up.

Excellent, excellent observation. I also get the impression from reading Danny's bloggins that he doesn't respect Phil H's poker ability. Sometimes the contempt practically oozes from da DN's writins.

In closing, I would like to commend you on your work here at the WPT forum. Your posts are consistently spot on and well-thought out. You remind me of a sore peter in a lot of ways, as the body of work you have contributed to 2+2 would be tough to beat without one incurring considerable pain.

[Vincent Lepore]

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You remind me of a sore peter in a lot of ways

[/ QUOTE ]

If I'm not mistake you have made exactly six posts on this 2 + 2 forums? Of those how many would you say contributed to Poker discussion. As before I echo: Your handle fits your conclusions!

vince

[Smoothcall]

My point if is other people who are considered "top players" are now saying Phil H plays like a donkey maybe my opinions are not wrong. I'm sorry to offend you thinking i would dare compare my opinion with the great daniel negreanu.

[Smoothcall]

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Your posts are consistently spot on and well-thought out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Finally someone recognizes my excellent contributions. Thank you! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[trying2learn]

but the point is, you DIDN'T say that phil has been playing like a donkey lately. you said that he (and I quote) "isn't a great player".

and that, is precisely why you get flamed. especially considering his recent win in NHUC, i think it's safe to say that his possible run of poor play last year is turning around as well.

i can't believe you really think that he's not a great player...that's just insane.

[Brock Landers]

Everytime I think Smoothcall's posts can't be any more Smoothcall, another one comes along.

[Smoothcall]

I'm sorry but i don't think He definatley does somthing right. But overall dont think he is a "great player". And from what i gather from daniel(and from at least 2 othe top players, that play alot with him) say he isn't great. They actually said worse i think, but for argument sake i will say they are saying he is not "great".

If he was a great player he would be able to beat lives games as well imo!

[trying2learn]

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If he was a great player he would be able to beat lives games as well imo!

[/ QUOTE ]

here's the thing...

tournaments and ring games are two DIFFERENT games. phil doesn't have to beat high end nl ring games to be a great nl tourney player. the man has nine bracelets...i don't care how small the fields were when he won them...they were filled with the best players in the world at the time. there really is no more discussion at this point.

i actually understand where you're coming from, and i don't think hellmuth is in a class with some of the players which he believes he is...but it's mind boggling to me that you can't acknowledge the fact that this guy has very few peers when it comes to accomplishments in nl tournaments.

[bones]

Daniel has played with Phil multiple times. Have you? See why his thoughts on PH have merit and yours don't?

[Smoothcall]

Do you see that i wasn't comparing my ability to read the situaiton better than daniel? I said i have an opinion on hellmuth through watching him from afar. And now someone who plays with him regualarly is somewhat supporting my argument. Now do you understand where i am coming from?

[Smoothcall]

Ok the problem i had is you say he is a great player. Now to me a great player is somewhat who plays great. Which means he can play tournament poker or live games and beat the best in the world. So if you claify and say he is a great NL tournament player only then there is a possible discussion.

Btw while 9 wsop bracelets is impressive. But how many wsop events has he entered? Its still a very good accomplishments but if you add how many he has played you may see why he has more than all the top players.

[Drac]

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Ok the problem i had is you say he is a great player. Now to me a great player is somewhat who plays great. Which means he can play tournament poker or live games and beat the best in the world.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you think there are any great players today? You rip the guy most people would put on their list, Doyle Brunson, all the time. So who makes your list of great players?

[Equal]

Another Smoothcall thread slagging Daniel Negreanu. What a fcuking surprise.

Threads like these are what makes 2p2 great.

[Smoothcall]

Not sure really as i don't play with them to tell for sure. But i will pick the ones i have never seen make silly mistakes in tournaments and are known to be top live players as well. Chip Reese, Chaui Giang, John Hennigan, Barry G., Howard Lederer, David Sklansky, Lenny Martin for his live limit holdem, Abdul for live limit holdem games, Mason Malmuth for live limit holdem. Some are better than others. But these are players that i think show excellence in live games and some show excellence in both live and tourney play. In my criteria to be excellent players they need first to be excellent live players. As i think it shows more ability to beat live games as the blinds stay the same. So you can't count on the blinds rising and getting aggressive and counting on luck as well. So the truley excellent need to be able to beat the live games imo.

[primetime32]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you see that i wasn't comparing my ability to read the situaiton better than daniel? I said i have an opinion on hellmuth through watching him from afar. And now someone who plays with him regualarly is somewhat supporting my argument. Now do you understand where i am coming from?

[/ QUOTE ]

I couldnt care less what any poker has to say about phil. While he is a huge jerk, he is a proven winner. The stats are all that count and he has multiple WSOP bracelets.

As for daniel rather playing phil than antonio that isnt that shocking. There are times when i would rather play against a better player than an inferior player because of matchup concerns. It could be that daniel has a good read on phil and has a bad read on antonio. That doesnt mean that antonio is better than phil.

[Smoothcall]

Daniel says i would rather play Phil than Antonio because antonio thinks outside the box more than phil. Does that sound like he thinks antonio is inferior? I don't think so.

This is why i put up the question. Because you say it doesn't matter what anybody says phil is great. But someone many people consider great is questioning Phil H's ability. You can say daniel is a proven winner just like phil h. So who is right? Thats why the question is interesting. Thats why i wrote it. But i guess it was pointless since you say you dont care becasue you know. So i guess you are saying you are a better judge of Phil H's play than Daniel N? If not you might want to reconsider caring!