QQ L4... Check out this laydown....

[octaveshift]

Was very proud of the laydown, until I saw the flop and river. Doh!

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button (t1085)
Hero (t1375)
BB (t1585)
UTG (t610)
UTG+1 (t1230)
MP1 (t645)
MP2 (t1085)
CO (t385)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls t100, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to t385 (All-In)</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to t1085 (All-In)</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 folds.

Flop: (t1720) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

Turn: (t1720) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

River: (t1720) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t1720

[TruFloridaGator]

Folding Quads is always fun /images/graemlins/grin.gif
What were your reads? What level was this?

[octaveshift]

10+1

I was going to call the all-in, until the button pushed. I figured it was a coinflip at best.

Button showed KK, so I still like the laydown.

I am sure someone will now post saying it was a stupid fold.

/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[TruFloridaGator]

[ QUOTE ]
10+1
I was going to call the all-in, until the button pushed. I figured I was, at best, coinflip.


[/ QUOTE ]

At a 10+1 I usually don't get away unless my read is strong, but yours appeared to be strong, so then nice play, a stomach churning board /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[willie]

mehhh

were you beat preflop?

cause i think that i CALL CA CALL CALL CALL there.

[TruFloridaGator]

I do too at the $11s.

[octaveshift]

[ QUOTE ]
mehhh

were you beat preflop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. He had KK.

[J-Lo]

[ QUOTE ]
I do too at the $11s.

[/ QUOTE ]

I call at the $55's

[octaveshift]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I do too at the $11s.

[/ QUOTE ]

I call at the $55's

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you call knowing it's a coinflip at best?

I had put villain on AA, AK, or KK.

[Karak567]

There's no way I make this laydown at a 10 + 1. I see people re-raise all in with hands like KQs, KJs, KTs, QJs, AQ, AJ, 77-JJ ALL THE TIME.

[octaveshift]

So what is the consensus?

Weak fold?

[holeplug]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I do too at the $11s.

[/ QUOTE ]

I call at the $55's

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you call knowing it's a coinflip at best?

I had put villain on AA, AK, or KK.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your being to narrow with the villians range of hands here. He's just trying to isolate the short stacks all-in by pushing himself. He doesn't need AA,AK, or KK to do this.

[octaveshift]

[ QUOTE ]

Your being to narrow with the villians range of hands here. He's just trying to isolate the short stacks all-in by pushing himself. He doesn't need AA,AK, or KK to do this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know, but I actually had watched the villain closely to this point, and could only see him making this play with premium cards.

[BradleyT]

results oriented weak fold.

[pokerlaw]

the fold is fine...totally up to a read, and apparently, it was a good one.

[Karak567]

What buyin level was this and what was the villain's name?

This hand looks mighty familiar.

[curtains]

I think the fold is bad.

[pergesu]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I do too at the $11s.

[/ QUOTE ]

I call at the $55's

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you call knowing it's a coinflip at best?

I had put villain on AA, AK, or KK.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well you're getting 1.6-1 on it, so yeah.

Absent a fantastic read here, I call 100% of the time. Since I don't have fantastic reads, I call here 100% of the time.

[lorinda]

I've seen worse plays.

As you've probably gathered from the thread, this isn't usually a fold.
Only you know (and only you should care, so no need to lie to yourself) how strong your reads were.
If they were genuinely strong, then folding QQ against KK is not usually bad.

Lori

[tminus]

man...that took some discipline

[beeyjay]

[ QUOTE ]
I am sure someone will now post saying it was a stupid fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think it was incredibly stupid per say, just a little too conservative for my taste. Plus I mean you have to take into consideration that you're going to probably hit quads so being behind preflop is of little relevance.

[Voltron87]

I call this at the 11s and the 55s. Especially, especially when I will flop quads.

Not calling for quad value is a major leak in your game IMO.

[valenzuela]

No way I fold here, no way. This is level 4, if Im button I re-raise all in with AQ+,77+.

[tminus]

wouldnt that depend on how the button had been playing up to this point ?

[valenzuela]

u mean CO? The CO has less than t400 hes an idiot anyway.

[ripped]

Folding QQ here is just bad. In the 10's it's worse.

[xPuns1her]

In an $11 tourny I call this instantly. However if $11 is alot to you I MIGHT consider folding if I had a strong read the big stack had KK or AA or even AK.

[Nottom]

I think this is a bad fold.

Just to illustrate a point, let's assume you are right and villian will only call with AA-KK/AK and lets say shorty is pushing with any pair, ace, broadway plus a few other hands:

equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1: 48.4590 % [ 00.48 00.01 ] { AA-KK, AKs, AKo }
Hand 2: 36.4307 % [ 00.36 00.00 ] { QQ }
Hand 3: 15.1103 % [ 00.14 00.01 ] { AA-22, AKs-A2s, KQs-K8s, QJs-Q9s, JTs, AKo-A2o, KQo-K9o, QJo-QTo, JTo }

OK, you win 36% of the time, not so good .... but you are getting 1.66-1 on the call and need to be getting 1.77-1 to have some chip EV. Thats pretty close.

The fact is, even a tight player will reraise with QQ-JJ here and probably AQ and TT as well. Unless you have played with this player many many times before, there is no way you an have his play pegged well enough to know he will only push with AA-KK or AK here.

When you add those hands into the equation it becomes a clear call.

[octaveshift]

Thanks. That's a great reply.

I hate being weak tight.

[tminus]

better than being teak wight