Ken Warrens New Stud book

[timmer]

Ken warrew has come out with a new 7 card stud book I havent read it

Has anyone here Know anything about it ?

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=3281822

timmer

[Bartholow]

I only read one Warren book and it had some true garbage in it. It would be hard to convince me to read another.

[Andy B]

Ken Warren's first hold'em book is so unspeakably bad that I can't imagine that this book would be any good.

[Michael Emery]

Ken Warren is one of the worst authors I've ever read. His works on both hold'em and omaha were terrible, but hold'em especially. He tries to brainwash you with such nonsense like never raising with AK preflop in hold'em as its a "complete drawing hand", and a lot more wack advice. I might buy and read his new stud book strictly for comedy entertainment value.

Mike Emery

[timmer]

I am glad you guys. You have confirmed my faith in each one of you.

You have a preconcieved notion about things and hold on to them lock jawed.

Dont you think I know about Ken Warrens other work and the problem contained within it?

I asked if anyone "KNEW" anything about his Stud book.

Obviously you dont.

But you each took the time and trouble to slam his other work which I specifically didnt ask about.

I'll be axiously awaiting a stud book from each one of you in the future.

Dont worry I will give it as fair a shake as you gave warren's. Who incidentally is still trying.

your friend and admirer

timmer

[jon_1van]

[ QUOTE ]
which I specifically didnt ask about

[/ QUOTE ]

You did not do this. You asked about the stud book. You didn't put anything in your OP that said "I know the HE book is bad but I don't want to here about that"

You asked :: [ QUOTE ]
Does anyone here know anything about it

[/ QUOTE ] (I paraphrase here for clarity)

And several posters said :: "I know something about the stud book, it is written by a guy who wrote an utterly terrible Holdem book." I hope you can see why this criticism is relevant.

[TheShootah]

It looks like he took the chapters from his Hold Em book and modified it to be a stud book. I would be interested in seeing his odds section though.

[BeerMoney]

Timmer,

Stop being a douchebag.

[Michael Emery]

[ QUOTE ]

I am glad you guys. You have confirmed my faith in each one of you.

You have a preconcieved notion about things and hold on to them lock jawed.


[/ QUOTE ]

Thats right. When some silly author like Ken Warren tries to tell me to simply call with AK preflop in hold'em, as opposed to raising because its a "drawing hand", I hold my opinion lock jawed.

[ QUOTE ]
But you each took the time and trouble to slam his other work which I specifically didnt ask about.



[/ QUOTE ]

You never asked anyone not to bring it up either. And given the question the authors past written material was completely relevant to the discussion.

[ QUOTE ]

I asked if anyone "KNEW" anything about his Stud book.

Obviously you dont.


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I'll be axiously awaiting a stud book from each one of you in the future.



[/ QUOTE ]

I can tell you I know more about stud than Ken Warren does. I also could write a much better book on it just like I'm sure a few other select stud posters I'm thinking of could.

[ QUOTE ]
Dont worry I will give it as fair a shake as you gave warren's. Who incidentally is still trying.



[/ QUOTE ]

Are you Ken Warren? Is this why you're going nuts here? There is a very good reason why Ken Warren plays 5-10 hold'em in a casino professionally. Believe me it is not the fact "I'm content with making $100 per day and not taking larger swings" like he says in his book. It is the fact that many of his plays and ideas are badly flawed.

Mike Emery

P.S. Timmer I have never said anything personal to you in any of your posts. You owe me a heads-up match for the comment you made about my posts a few threads back if thats what you believe. 10-20 or up on any site stud/hold'em/omaha just give me the time.

Mike Emery

[Bartholow]

I don't like Mike's example of why Warren's hold-em works sucked, because while I agree that it is bad advice, it is nonetheless his opinion and there are some other decent authors who advise play different from what we 2+2ers think of as correct. And it may not necessarily mean he is unqualified to write a book about stud.

However, at one point in his first hold'em book he claimed that if small cards have been flopping, you should consider playing small cards because the "theory of large numbers" dictates that there will be runs of small card flops. I assume you can tell for yourself why that is utter hogwash and suggests that Warren is unqualified to write any poker book.

Sorry I'm such a close minded dick.

[CarlosChadha]

[ QUOTE ]

P.S. Timmer I have never said anything personal to you in any of your posts. You owe me a heads-up match for the comment you made about my posts a few threads back if thats what you believe. 10-20 or up on any site stud/hold'em/omaha just give me the time.


[/ QUOTE ]

How about a best our of 5 arm wrestling match on the playground during recess? That is how real men settle things...I volunteer to referee.

-Carlos

P.S. Timmer has cuties; watch out!

[BeerMoney]

[ QUOTE ]

However, at one point in his first hold'em book he claimed that if small cards have been flopping, you should consider playing small cards because the "theory of large numbers" dictates that there will be runs of small card flops.

[/ QUOTE ]

Timmer probably agrees, as he thinks if you play a flush draw against more people, you're more likely to hit your flush.

ahhhhhhh........ Timmer.

[Bartholow]

I think the prefered spelling is "cooties". <pushes glasses up nose>

[CarlosChadha]

I, um, meant to watch out for the many cute girls that follow him around everywhere...but he also has cooties because of them!

[SittingBull]

IS CORRECT. However,his reason for doing so is NOT correct.
The Caro School advises AGAINST raising AA,AK pre-flop. This is because over time,a player will profit more by NOT doing a pre-flop protection raise with these hands.
*************************************
Advantage of Mike Caro's sytem
more profit
Disadvantage

Some players tend to go on tilt and play inferior cards
---resulting in loses of substantial amount of money.The reason is that players who follow Caro's suggestion will lose about 65% of their hands by NOT doing a pre-flop protection raise.
***************************
The only way one can realize the bigger profit from Caro's method is having the fortitude to maintain discipline after losing many hands with quality cards like AA,AK.
I personally CANNOT maintain my discipline if I lose a substantial # of hands with AA,AK
/images/graemlins/frown.gifHence,FOR ME PERSONALLY, I would NOT make the profit that Mike stated. Therefore,I generally play according to the other school of thought. By winning more pots(albeit smaller ones) I tend to continue to play well. /images/graemlins/smile.gif
HappyPokering, /images/graemlins/smile.gif
SittingBull

[MRBAA]

Sigh. Bull. Mike Caro's advice is not good. Read my first book:

The Pocket Idiot's Guide to Hold'em to see why raising wi/ AA, AK, KK etc. is generally a must.

I'm working on another poker book now, when that's done I do plan to do a stud book. I'm confident it will be far and away the best beginner/low stakes stud book around.

[timmer]

Actually caro has you not ALWAYS calling those hands in EARLY position and USUALLY not 3 betting those hands in early position. because it often defines your hand there by reducing your profit. among other things there are certain types of opponents you should not do this against. The fact is that he doesnt like another player forcing the field to call 2 bets cold thereby forcing most of them to fold

12 Days to Hold em suce$$ Day Three Lesson

people ALWAYS get this messed up.


timmer

so has anyone heard anything abot Ken Warrens Stud Book ?

[timmer]

Ahhh beer money... as usual taking thing out of context again to suit your purpose.

[timmer]

IF I asked you about "A" ,.....

Ah forget it .

~t

[SittingBull]

Wasn't sure.
SittingBull

[SittingBull]

books. Mason did make a comment about losing a lot of money following Caro's advice.
/images/graemlins/mad.gifHmmm
SittngBull

[PoorLawyer]

[ QUOTE ]
IF I asked you about "A" ,.....

Ah forget it .

~t

[/ QUOTE ]

....then B is relevant to show prior bad acts that tend to show the propensity to repeat them. See Civil Rules of Evidence. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Hauser_III]

I hate lawyers, I hate lawyers.

Oh, wait, I'm a lawyer, too....

[MRBAA]

Bull, if you are not usually raising preflop with AA-TT, AK, AQs-ATs into crowded fields in HE, you are almost certainly leaving money on the table. Just like low stakes stud, tricky ain't worth it most of the time. About the only starting hands I'll get tricky with are roll ups JJ-AA in most situations.

[PoorLawyer]

[ QUOTE ]
I hate lawyers, I hate lawyers.

Oh, wait, I'm a lawyer, too....

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not a particularly good one if that makes you feel better. That and I am the kind that wears jeans, sneakers and golf shirts and is playing poker right now because his boss is out of town! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[timmer]

And Caro says the same about some of Masons advice.

primarily because you tend to run off the weak money and leave your self limited to a smaller number of better hands

who likely are gaining just about as much percentage wise as you are for limiting the pot.

thsi argument has been going on for a long long time

Caro has access to millions of real money hand histories.

So does Cooke. Cooke says "it depends"

I have talked to all three of these people 1 on 1 face to face at length about this theory. Mason the least. thay are all adamant that they are correct. I think they are all correct and they are all wrong . the circumstances make the difference

So, I usually go with it depends.

against terrible low limit Players I usually like to Raise Raise Raise but I will 0ccasionally limp with the big pairs early.

Somtimes Ill limp with the big SC's early .

but it depends what the table texture is like.

timmer

[timmer]

there is more on this subject written by Caro but I cant locate it just now.

[timmer]

Yes, but it doesnt prove them. except to the prosecuting attorney... and cops

Actually I was going to say IF I asked you About A then you went on and on about how bad B sucked YADA X3

[SittingBull]

noticed that I PERSONALLY do not subscribe to Caro's advice. Although I do believe that his recommendation is valid,I have a PSYCHOLOGICAL reason for NOT adhering to his thinking. I gave the reason in my Caro's post.
Just for the record,I NOT only raise pre-flop with AA,KK,QQ,in ANY postion,BUT I also raise PRE-FLOP with JJ-99
in EP. I also raise pre-flop with AKo,AQo,AJo in ANY position. Obviously,I will also raise when thses are suited. However,playing the suited one's is OK in a large field without raising pre-flop. Just thought I present some of my basic strategies. Upper mid-limit suited connectors and suited connectors and 1-gap suited such as QJs,TQs are CALLING hands from EP and MP --U want several players in with u in EP ,MP--sometimes RAISE in LP in a crowed field---Players are already tied in. Open RAISE in late MP as a semi-bluff. Likewise,if u are the first one in,open RAISE with these hands in LP. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I notice that MOST micro .25/.50 hold'em games at 'Stars are tight. However,the stud tables at the same limit are mostly loose. This is the reason I play more stud than hold'em. The hold'em players are NOT throwing their .25 anr .50 at U. at 'Stars. /images/graemlins/frown.gif
HappyPokering, /images/graemlins/smile.gif
SittingBull