Yankees Sink to Bottom of AL East

[adios]

Well this topic has come up before. I hate to agree with Dead, but it is way early to write the Bronx Bombers off. My question is, if the Yankees suffer through a 1965 like season as Andy is predicting will this hurt their revenue from TV and how locked in are the Yankees in subsequent years to the enormous payroll they have now? Doesn't look they're getting the best bang for the buck.

Yankees Sink to Bottom of AL East (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/bba_al_rdp)

[Dead]

What I think you are forgetting is how huge the NY baseball market really is.

The fans will not stop coming to the Yankees games because of one bad season, and likewise, the Yankee fans will not stop watching the games on TV because of one sub-par season.

And I do still think that is it too early to write the Bombers off. We have more than 5 months of baseball left.

And we have Oakland tonight through Sunday. Oakland has been struggling. I think that the Yankees should be able to sweep them, with Moose and Pavano coming up.

But you are definitely right that we are not getting bang for the buck.

The big bang that we are missing is Giambi. He's not a .320-45-140 guy anymore. He'll be more like a .270-20-80 guy once he gets back to normal.

His contract is locked up for 3 or 4 more years and we really screwed ourselves with that one. No way to get out of it.

Brown's contract is up after this year, and I guarantee you that the Yankees won't re-sign him. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

The other big position player contracts that we have are producing huge benefits. Jeter, A-Rod, and Sheffield, are all really hot right now.

Matsui is slumping somewhat but his contract isn't really that big. It's only about 8 mil per year.

[Zoltri]

Pinnacle Sportsbook
Will the Yankees make the playoffs?

YES +128
NO -138

Seems the books think it's still too early to write them off. I tend to agree but they need some kind of shakeup...Kevin Brown comes to mind.

[Dead]

And how do you suggest we get rid of Kevin Brown, and his almost 16 million per year?

[2planka]

[ QUOTE ]
And how do you suggest we get rid of Kevin Brown

[/ QUOTE ]

East River

[adios]

Good points Dead about the Yankees market. I still think the Yankees could get a better deal for the $200 million plus they spend on salaries though than what they're getting now.

[Dead]

No one is disputing that, adios.

Unfortunately, we are stuck with the one huge contract(Giambi). He'll be getting something like 18 mil per year towards the end of it.

A-Rod is expensive but he is worth it. So are Jeter and Sheffield.

Bernie has a big contract but it is also up after this year.

After this year, we'll drop two big ones in Bernie and Brown, and after 2008 or so, we'll jettison Giambi.

Steinbrenner made a BIG mistake in not signing Beltran. Now we have Matsui in CF and Womack playing left. Surely a 200 million dollar team can afford a better left fielder.

The Yankees definitely have to put some effort into rebuilding their farm system. Other teams want prospects for their superstars, they don't want money. And I am tired of us trading away our good prospects for old superstars.

Granted, RJ is still dominant, but I really question whether or not it was worth giving up Halsey, Vazquez, and Navarro.

Halsey and Vazquez are both starting pitchers for the DBacks right now, and are being very successful. We could sure use them both back right about now.

And this team needs to get YOUNGER. Having an average age of 33 when other teams are under 30 is ridiculous.

[ttleistdci]

[ QUOTE ]
Well this topic has come up before. I hate to agree with Dead, but it is way early to write the Bronx Bombers off. My question is, if the Yankees suffer through a 1965 like season as Andy is predicting will this hurt their revenue from TV and how locked in are the Yankees in subsequent years to the enormous payroll they have now? Doesn't look they're getting the best bang for the buck.

Yankees Sink to Bottom of AL East (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/bba_al_rdp)

[/ QUOTE ]

No...this will definitely not hurt their revenue from TV and such. As much as I hate them, they are still one of the most marketable and recognizable teams on the face of the Earth. Did Jordan's decline in skill while he was with Washington hurt his marketability? Not a chance. He's still Michael Jordan.

If they miss the playoffs this year, expect some HUGE changes, especially to their pitching rotation. Maybe Steinbrenner will realize that you can spend $4 billion and still not even be guaranteed a spot in the playoffs.
I wouldn't doubt they try to unload some of their bigger contracts, like Kevin Brown, despite what they'll have to pay.

[Zoltri]

[ QUOTE ]
And how do you suggest we get rid of Kevin Brown, and his almost 16 million per year?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would buy him out. He is doing more harm than good and I suspect his attitude is bad for morale in the clubhouse.

That, or I agree, the East River.

[IndieMatty]

[ QUOTE ]
What I think you are forgetting is how huge the NY baseball market really is.

The fans will not stop coming to the Yankees games because of one bad season, and likewise, the Yankee fans will not stop watching the games on TV because of one sub-par season.

And I do still think that is it too early to write the Bombers off. We have more than 5 months of baseball left.

And we have Oakland tonight through Sunday. Oakland has been struggling. I think that the Yankees should be able to sweep them, with Moose and Pavano coming up.

But you are definitely right that we are not getting bang for the buck.

The big bang that we are missing is Giambi. He's not a .320-45-140 guy anymore. He'll be more like a .270-20-80 guy once he gets back to normal.

His contract is locked up for 3 or 4 more years and we really screwed ourselves with that one. No way to get out of it.

Brown's contract is up after this year, and I guarantee you that the Yankees won't re-sign him. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

The other big position player contracts that we have are producing huge benefits. Jeter, A-Rod, and Sheffield, are all really hot right now.

Matsui is slumping somewhat but his contract isn't really that big. It's only about 8 mil per year.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please refer to the yankees attendance pre-1994. There a re a lot of front-running yankee fans who WILL not go to the game. If, (and I still dont think they are done), the Yankees have a fall from grandeur, they will most CERTAINLY have a huge drop in attendance.

[Dead]

[ QUOTE ]
I would buy him out.

[/ QUOTE ]

You want us to eat his 14 million this year(the rest of his 2005)? I say that we should at least attempt to trade him for an outfield prospect. I know that KB has a no-trade clause but we could parade him in front of the media and turn the fans on him, so that he would probably want to accept a trade.

[Dead]

Those people who will stop going to the games are not true Yankee fans. They are just idiot New Yorkers who like to wear the interlocking NY on their caps. I bet you 80% of them couldn't even name the starting rotation.

[Zoltri]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would buy him out.

[/ QUOTE ]

You want us to eat his 14 million this year(the rest of his 2005)?

[/ QUOTE ]
Why not? Would Kevin Brown be the first high priced athlete bought out of his contract?

[Soul Daddy]

[ QUOTE ]
The big bang that we are missing is Giambi. He's not a .320-45-140 guy anymore. He'll be more like a .270-20-80 guy once he gets back to normal.

[/ QUOTE ]
When is this going to happen? I would think the Yanks would kill for those kind of stats from him at this point.

[ttleistdci]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would buy him out.

[/ QUOTE ]

You want us to eat his 14 million this year(the rest of his 2005)? I say that we should at least attempt to trade him for an outfield prospect. I know that KB has a no-trade clause but we could parade him in front of the media and turn the fans on him, so that he would probably want to accept a trade.

[/ QUOTE ]

No team in their right mind would give up even an OF prospect for Kevin Brown and his huge contract. His value is gone and is further dragged down by his contract.

[meep_42]

They're goin' down like Jeter on a Saturday night.

-d

[IndieMatty]

[ QUOTE ]
Those people who will stop going to the games are not true Yankee fans. They are just idiot New Yorkers who like to wear the interlocking NY on their caps. I bet you 80% of them couldn't even name the starting rotation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right, therefore you saying that attendance will not be affected is...umm really wrong.

[James282]

[ QUOTE ]
Well this topic has come up before. I hate to agree with Dead, but it is way early to write the Bronx Bombers off. My question is, if the Yankees suffer through a 1965 like season as Andy is predicting will this hurt their revenue from TV and how locked in are the Yankees in subsequent years to the enormous payroll they have now? Doesn't look they're getting the best bang for the buck.

Yankees Sink to Bottom of AL East (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/bba_al_rdp)

[/ QUOTE ]

What do you mean they aren't getting the best bang for their buck?!?!! You mean you'd rather not get beat 3-1 in series against a team whose entire payroll equals the amount you pay the guys who currently platoon at DH?
-James

/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Dead]

No.

Because the bleacher bums will still come.

I think that most of them will come. It's the bandwagoners who will stop.

[Dead]

I seem to remember the Mets getting slapped around by the Expos this year, and by the Nationals this year.

[Dead]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would buy him out.

[/ QUOTE ]

You want us to eat his 14 million this year(the rest of his 2005)? I say that we should at least attempt to trade him for an outfield prospect. I know that KB has a no-trade clause but we could parade him in front of the media and turn the fans on him, so that he would probably want to accept a trade.

[/ QUOTE ]

No team in their right mind would give up even an OF prospect for Kevin Brown and his huge contract. His value is gone and is further dragged down by his contract.

[/ QUOTE ]

The sad thing is that Kevin Brown has been an awesome pitcher throughout his career. He was on the HOF track in the late 90s. He pitched great with the Padres, and great with the Dodgers in 2003. Look at his ERA+.

I don't know what's wrong with him this year.

[Soul Daddy]

[ QUOTE ]
I think that most of them will come. It's the bandwagoners who will stop.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think you're underestimating how many bandwagoners are amongst what you consider true fans. It's really easy to root for your team when they are consistent winners. A lot of Yankee fans are so accustomed to winning, they'd rather find something else to feel passionate about than devote energy to a loser.

[Shajen]

I have an idea:

let's make another thread about the [censored] yankees.

[Dead]

I guess we'll find out soon. /images/graemlins/mad.gif

[IndieMatty]

[ QUOTE ]
No.

Because the bleacher bums will still come.

I think that most of them will come. It's the bandwagoners who will stop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please look at the Yankees barely breaking 2 Million a year before the wagon left the corral.

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
Pinnacle Sportsbook
Will the Yankees make the playoffs?

YES +128
NO -138

Seems the books think it's still too early to write them off. I tend to agree but they need some kind of shakeup...Kevin Brown comes to mind.

[/ QUOTE ]umm, wouldnt those line mean they have written them off? or are you saying they arent big enough yet to be considered written off?

[Pocket Trips]

[ QUOTE ]
And how do you suggest we get rid of Kevin Brown, and his almost 16 million per year?

[/ QUOTE ]

dump his whiney ass and eat his contract... sure it sux but not as much as Kevin Brown does these days

[Dead]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And how do you suggest we get rid of Kevin Brown, and his almost 16 million per year?

[/ QUOTE ]

dump his whiney ass and eat his contract... sure it sux but not as much as Kevin Brown does these days

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's see how he does this Sunday against Oakland. If he sucks like he has been doing, then I'd concur. Eat his contract and go out on the market and do some deals. The Yankees don't need any more offense. The offense is fine.

What we need is pitching, and a little bit better defense in the outfield:

One decent defensive center fielder who can hit at least .270 and get on base at least 35% of the time.
One good reliever.
Another good starter.

Because, let's face it, we're not going to win a lot of games having two minor leaguers(AAA and AA) in the starting rotation. I know that RJ is coming back, but if we are to dump Brown, then we'll likely need them both up here. /images/graemlins/frown.gif Another alternative is to start Sturtze.

I would love to get Juan Pierre from the Marlins, but there isn't any way that they are going to give him up.

Pedro Feliz, maybe?

[wh1t3bread]

[ QUOTE ]
I seem to remember the Mets getting slapped around by the Expos this year, and by the Nationals this year.

[/ QUOTE ]

The Mets are 3-3 against the Nationals this year. Although this isn't braggable it's not exactly "getting slapped around".

Do your homework.

[B00T]

[ QUOTE ]
Those people who will stop going to the games are not true Yankee fans. They are just idiot New Yorkers who like to wear the interlocking NY on their caps. I bet you 80% of them couldn't even name the starting rotation.


[/ QUOTE ]

Dead you are wrong. IndieMatty is 100% correct. Their attendance is so high cause of all these bandwagoners. They have been good for so long that a lot of fans dont know any other way from the Yankees. All these Yankee fans that popped up are going to disappear when the sky is falling. The sky will fall next year.

The Yankees are atrocious. They got by because when one option failed they just got another. It's catching up to them now. Each year they seem to pass up getting the best person available.

Why the hell did they not get Vlad. Sheffield is good, but clearly Vlad would of been the better choice. He is younger, and a lot more versatile than Sheff.

The Yankees should of got Schilling. It will be hard to admit when he is on Boston now, or his ankle causing problems but in hindsight he would of been the correct signing at the time, instead of that Brown/Weaver debacle.

They should of signed Beltran. They need a cornerstone of a center fielder with Bernie in his wheelchair. The best one they could of gotten in the next 5 years just passed them by.

When they signed Sheff it was a safe signing. When they sign Wright, Pavano, and other shaky players like Contreras this is what you end up with.

Why the hell did the Yankees get rid of Lieber. They let him sit with his injury and held on to him and invested in him knowing he would come back strong. When he reached his high point in health, then they let him go? Retarded.

Cashman should be fired end of story. I dont blame him for Giambi and his situation. I would of signed him too with that money. For the amount of money he is allowed to spend he spends it terribly and is embaressing. If you give any other GM 200mil I bet you they can create 2 teams that could make the playoffs.

[Dead]

I agree with the vast majority of the post.

I don't disagree with the Contreras signing. He shut the Orioles down when they came to Cuba to play. He was the best pitcher from that country at the time. And if we didn't get him, the Red Sox would have.

Look at how he is doing with the White Sox right now. He has a 3.04 ERA after 5 or 6 starts. Maybe he just couldn't handle the pressure in NY, ala Weaver.

Here's the move I don't get, B00T. Of course we shouldn't have let Lieber go, but WHY DID WE LET EL DUQUE GO? The White Sox are paying him 3 million dollars a year. We could have afforded that, and imagine how great it would be to have El Duque right now.

He saved our asses last year in September. We wouldn't have won the AL East had it not been for El Duque going 7-0, 3.30 down the stretch.

And I agree 100% that Cashman should be fired. He is an incompetent boob. I could do a better GM job than Cashman, guaranteed.

[Soul Daddy]

It wasn't Schilling or Brown, it was Schilling or Vazquez. In hindsight it's easy to see Schilling as the superior choice, but at the time Vazquez was looking like the next big thing.

It's hard to blame Cashman, when all reports have stated that The Boss has making the major personnel decisions for the past few seasons. He certainly was the driving force behind signing Sheffield over Vlad. Why they didn't go after Beltran or why they let Lieber go are still mysteries.

Also, wasn't Cashman supposedly crushed when his contract was renewed? I was under the impression he wanted out, but Steinbrenner wasn't going to let that happen. The evil bastard.

[Aytumious]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And how do you suggest we get rid of Kevin Brown, and his almost 16 million per year?

[/ QUOTE ]

dump his whiney ass and eat his contract... sure it sux but not as much as Kevin Brown does these days

[/ QUOTE ]

One decent defensive center fielder who can hit at least .270 and get on base at least 35% of the time.

I would love to get Juan Pierre from the Marlins, but there isn't any way that they are going to give him up.

Pedro Feliz, maybe?

[/ QUOTE ]

First of all, teams don't simply give away quality defensive center fielders with .350 OBP to teams with nothing to offer in return. Also, you're in complete la la land if you think Pierre is even close to being on the market, and Pedro Feliz is knocking the snot out of the ball in SF. Seriously, your suggestions are basically impossible.

[Dead]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, wasn't Cashman supposedly crushed when his contract was renewed? I was under the impression he wanted out, but Steinbrenner wasn't going to let that happen. The evil bastard.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cashman can walk anytime he wants, lol.

[Dead]

How about Mike Cameron? Gordon for Cameron?

[Aytumious]

[ QUOTE ]
How about Mike Cameron? Gordon for Cameron?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a little better, but I doubt Gordon has any trade value at this point. The Mets would rather hang onto Cameron than basically trade him for nothing. The Yankees really have nothing of value to offer anyone. They are stuck with what they have. Trust me Dead, they are in trouble. /images/graemlins/ooo.gif

[Dead]

I think if we included our top prospect Duncan + Gordon in return for Cameron, that they would give him to us. Just a hunch.

Getting Cameron would fill a huge hole in our defense. We wouldn't have to worry about the outfield anymore, because we could move Matsui back to left and Sheffield is fine in right. And then move Womack back to 2B, where he belongs.

[ttleistdci]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And how do you suggest we get rid of Kevin Brown, and his almost 16 million per year?

[/ QUOTE ]

dump his whiney ass and eat his contract... sure it sux but not as much as Kevin Brown does these days

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's see how he does this Sunday against Oakland. If he sucks like he has been doing, then I'd concur. Eat his contract and go out on the market and do some deals. The Yankees don't need any more offense. The offense is fine.

What we need is pitching, and a little bit better defense in the outfield:

One decent defensive center fielder who can hit at least .270 and get on base at least 35% of the time.
One good reliever.
Another good starter.

Because, let's face it, we're not going to win a lot of games having two minor leaguers(AAA and AA) in the starting rotation. I know that RJ is coming back, but if we are to dump Brown, then we'll likely need them both up here. /images/graemlins/frown.gif Another alternative is to start Sturtze.

I would love to get Juan Pierre from the Marlins, but there isn't any way that they are going to give him up.

Pedro Feliz, maybe?

[/ QUOTE ]

One good start against a mediocre team isn't gonna make Kevin Brown worth it. He has already proven he's not.

[Pocket Trips]

Dear Dead,

I have refrained from the dead bashing up to this point because I am fairly new to OOT and I try make up my own mind about a person amd not base it on others bashing them as vehemently as you have been. That time has now passed. I have come to the realization that you deserve to bashed even harder than you have been.

Last week when the yankees lost to the angels you said the pitching is fine I am woried about the offense... now it is the exact opposite this week.... did the yankees completely change overnight??? no they didn't. Shortsighted fans like you are the reason the yankees and their fans are hated so much... You give all us realistic Yankee fans a bad name.

You can't argue one point one week then the exact opposite the next and wonder why people hate you/don't take anything you have to say seriously... think before you type once in awhile.

I look foward to participating in the bashing from this point foward since you seem to give your critics just an endless supply of ammunition with your idiocy.

Sincerely
Pocket Trips

[ttleistdci]

Amen, Pocket Trips.

[Dead]

I've been a Yankee fan since I was 5 you little [censored].

That's all I have to say about your post.

[Pocket Trips]

[ QUOTE ]
I've been a Yankee fan since I was 5 you little [censored].

That's all I have to say about your post.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is a difference between being a fan and being an intelligent fan

Seriously how can you go in one week from sasying you are not worried about the pitching to saying we need to trade for starters? It may be that you just realized how idiotic your OP was but at least have the balls to say so.

[contentless]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Also, wasn't Cashman supposedly crushed when his contract was renewed? I was under the impression he wanted out, but Steinbrenner wasn't going to let that happen. The evil bastard.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cashman can walk anytime he wants, lol.

[/ QUOTE ]

"By December, Cashman’s unhappiness was such an open secret that the Post quoted friends saying the GM wanted out. Steinbrenner responded the next day—by exercising an option to extend Cashman’s contract for another year, without saying a word to Cashman about it."

http://newyorkmetro.com/nymetro/news/sports/features/9611/index1.html

[contentless]

[ QUOTE ]
How about Mike Cameron? Gordon for Cameron?

[/ QUOTE ]

So damn arrogant. Who the [censored] wants Gordon? Do you want Gordon? A week ago, you trashed him every day. And now that you want Cameron, you think that he all of a sudden is worth the [censored] on your face?

[Aytumious]

[ QUOTE ]
I think if we included our top prospect Duncan + Gordon in return for Cameron, that they would give him to us. Just a hunch.

Getting Cameron would fill a huge hole in our defense. We wouldn't have to worry about the outfield anymore, because we could move Matsui back to left and Sheffield is fine in right. And then move Womack back to 2B, where he belongs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cameron would be an outstanding fit for the Yanks, but the Mets are not going to give up a gold glove centerfielder who has some pop in his bat for a clearly washed up, overpaid reliever, and a decent prospect in Duncan, who happens to play 3B, which will be occupied by the outstanding David Wright for the next 10-15 years. Cameron would be great, but they don't have anything the Mets would take in return.

[James282]

[ QUOTE ]
I seem to remember the Mets getting slapped around by the Expos this year, and by the Nationals this year.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah it's a tough year when you lose to a team and then go ahead and lose to a former incarnation of the same team. But the Nationals are only at 1/2 the Mets payroll as opposed to the 1/6.5 when you compare the Rays to the Yanks /images/graemlins/smile.gif And they don't even have a losing record against them.
-James

[kenberman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I've been a Yankee fan since I was 5 you little [censored].

That's all I have to say about your post.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is a difference between being a fan and being an intelligent fan

Seriously how can you go in one week from sasying you are not worried about the pitching to saying we need to trade for starters? It may be that you just realized how idiotic your OP was but at least have the balls to say so.

[/ QUOTE ]

all his posts are idiotic and completely devoid of fact. it used to kinda bother me, now I (and everyone else) just realizes he's a fool who's best left alone.

[sublime]

great post.

i actually like dead. he seems like an ok kid, probably wouldnt hurt another human being for no reason etc.

but FCUK he is sooo annoying to talk to about anything /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[scrub]

[ QUOTE ]
A lot of Yankee fans are so accustomed to winning, they'd rather find something else to feel passionate about than devote energy to a loser.

[/ QUOTE ]

If what happened in the late 80's/early 90's is any indication, many of these "diehards" will make their way back over to Shea.

scrub

[Lazymeatball]

[ QUOTE ]

And we have Oakland tonight through Sunday. Oakland has been struggling. I think that the Yankees should be able to sweep them, with Moose and Pavano coming up.



[/ QUOTE ]

YOU FUC[/b]KING SUCK AT PREDICTIONS!!!!1111

[sublime]

wow

wade miller looks CRISP. fastball clocked around 93-94 and his curve looks NASTY.

god damn

[sublime]

wade miller looks CRISP. fastball clocked around 93-94 and his curve looks NASTY

jesus. 94 MPH fastball and a 12-6 curve at 73. if this guy stays healthy i am in love.

[kerssens]

[ QUOTE ]
wade miller looks CRISP. fastball clocked around 93-94 and his curve looks NASTY

jesus. 94 MPH fastball and a 12-6 curve at 73. if this guy stays healthy i am in love.

[/ QUOTE ]

You wouldn't rather have Ryan Franklin?? /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[BigD226]

[ QUOTE ]
wade miller looks CRISP. fastball clocked around 93-94 and his curve looks NASTY

jesus. 94 MPH fastball and a 12-6 curve at 73. if this guy stays healthy i am in love.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. Hung a couple pitches in the 3rd inning, and the D didn't do much for him today. But other than that...just filthy stuff. Those curves he was throwing early were ridiculous.

[Aytumious]

[ QUOTE ]
wade miller looks CRISP. fastball clocked around 93-94 and his curve looks NASTY

jesus. 94 MPH fastball and a 12-6 curve at 73. if this guy stays healthy i am in love.

[/ QUOTE ]

Take a look at his career stats. If he's healthy, he's the steal of the offseason.

[sublime]

Take a look at his career stats. If he's healthy, he's the steal of the offseason.

i always knew he had good stats, but today was mayeb the second time i saw him pitch, and first time i paid attention. nasty stuff. kinda like jaret wright.