Empire gone crazy !

[William]

Yesterday, I got an e-mail from Empire, telling me that they have a 50% up to 100$ bonus on tuesday. GREAT!

Today my account is frozen due to "security reasons"
WTF??? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

So I call the number in the little window that has pop'd-up in my screen and stops me from logging into Empire.
A nive lady that thanks me 100 times for calling tells me I have to e-mail Empire as she doesn't know why my account is frozen.
OK!, I do that, here is the e-mail I wrote:

"Hello,

I have noticed that my account has been frozen for "security reasons".
I have called to the phone number displayed in my screen and talked to a lady that asked me to e-mail you as soon as possible and ask you why this is happening.

I don't even have money in my account right now, so I really don't understand what is going on.
Please explain, either by mail or call me at xxx

Best regards,
xxx
Acct. id. : xxx"

30 minutes later the answer arrives. Here's the E-mail:

"Dear xxx,

Thank you for your e-mail.

This account has been randomly checked and found to consist with suspicious and wrongful actions that we don't support at EmpirePoker.com. As a result, we regret to inform you that the account has been closed permanently by the Management. The process is unfortunately not reversible and we thank you for the time you played with us."

What the hell??? First, I have played at Empire 2, maybe 3 times.
Second, there is no money in my account.
Third and this is what crosses me most, the [censored] is accusing me of suspicious and wrongful actions
He doesn't even bother to explain what these actions are /images/graemlins/confused.gif

Here's my answer:

"You are welcome to close my account if you wish, but I do not accept that you accuse me to suspicious and wrongful action, because I have not done anything "suspicious" or "wrongful"
I play poker at many sites, so one more or less changes nothing, but I think that when you make the kind of accusation you are making, you could at least have the courtesy of telling what the "suspicious and wrongful" action are, so I have a chance to prove you wrong."

Yes, I do have an account at Party and yes, I do play at Empire mostly when they offer a reload bonus, but if that's what is bothering them, why not say so and not come with insulting accusations?

Nothing new under the sun, but once again, I am reminded that:
SOME PEOPLE HAVE NO MANNERS

Empire Poker, if you read this, my public message to you is:

F*** YOU
A (very, very angry) William /images/graemlins/mad.gif /images/graemlins/mad.gif /images/graemlins/mad.gif

[wbrumfiel]

With all this going on Im wondering how Empire will survive once they ban all the multiple account holders. I know one thing for sure is that I would not have an Empire account if it werent for bonuses so Im probably next (or already banned and havent checked today). How many of thier customers are Empire only customers?

[William]

EMPIRE POKER

R.I.P.


I will come and both spit and piss on your grave! /images/graemlins/mad.gif

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]
With all this going on Im wondering how Empire will survive once they ban all the multiple account holders. I know one thing for sure is that I would not have an Empire account if it werent for bonuses so Im probably next (or already banned and havent checked today). How many of thier customers are Empire only customers?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure if you are joking or not here.

Are you wondering how Empire will survive if they close accounts that has cost them money in the past and most likely will continue to cost them money in the future if they remain open?

[ckmj23]

[ QUOTE ]


I'm not sure if you are joking or not here.

Are you wondering how Empire will survive if they close accounts that has cost them money in the past and most likely will continue to cost them money in the future if they remain open?

[/ QUOTE ]

Empire obviously has every right to close accounts they deem unprofitable. This is fine.

However, to accuse users of suspicious activities without any sort of evidence whatsoever is terrible IMO.

I play at Empire during reloads at 2/4. I am not a minus MGR player to them. If continued posts are made regarding account closures that give no explanation as to why, I will prompty ask them to close my account.

Perhaps with the an email such as this....

To whom it may concern,

It has come to my attention that your site is practicing in suspicious and wrongful actions that I dont support. As a result I regret to inform you that I wish for my account to be closed permanently.

[wbrumfiel]

If they are lucky and only piss off those that cost them money and ban them, sure why not. If they arent lucky and start to piss of others who actually make them money then what?
I mean if they were losing millions of dollars a year or something I would say its a good business decision but if they are losing only a little bit of money from a few whores but risk pissing off the "good" customers then I think its a bad business decision. I know one thing, Ive lost money on 2 different reloads at empire as Im sure other whores have so they were making money off of me even if I was just playing there for the bonus. In the long run I'll probably come out ahead (probably already have) but for a company that doesnt really seem to be financially burdened it just seems stupid.

Heres a thought, how many bonus "abusers" do you see at PokerStars or UB. Not as many as party and skins. Why might that be? MAYBE instead of banning accounts and creating a bad image for yourself it would be smarter to change the bonus terms (and not offer 15 bonuses a month) so that they quit losing money from the whores. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]
If they are lucky and only piss off those that cost them money and ban them, sure why not. If they arent lucky and start to piss of others who actually make them money then what?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you can count the number of regular players that will stop playing on Empire after this on one hand. In fact if Empire uses the money they save here on customer relations they may attract even more players.


[ QUOTE ]
I know one thing, Ive lost money on 2 different reloads at empire as Im sure other whores have so they were making money off of me even if I was just playing there for the bonus.

[/ QUOTE ]

You lost money to other players. Empire don't particlarly care one way or another.

[ QUOTE ]
Heres a thought, how many bonus "abusers" do you see at PokerStars or UB. Not as many as party and skins. Why might that be? MAYBE instead of banning accounts and creating a bad image for yourself it would be smarter to change the bonus terms (and not offer 15 bonuses a month) so that they quit losing money from the whores. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

So you mean it would be better to have worse conditions for the loyal players instead of just closing accounts who only play for bonuses?

Empire did in fact do both here, which seems clumsy to me. Just getting rid of the bonus whores would have been enough.

[wbrumfiel]

I lost money to other players, which Empire likely raked in from them as well. Its fine if you think Im a fool for thinking what I think but people are already getting paranoid regardless of whether they strictly bonus whore or not. I have a buddy who plays there almost exclusively that has quit until this whole thing blows over just to be safe. That cant be good for business.

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]
I lost money to other players, which Empire likely raked in from them as well. Its fine if you think Im a fool for thinking what I think but people are already getting paranoid regardless of whether they strictly bonus whore or not. I have a buddy who plays there almost exclusively that has quit until this whole thing blows over just to be safe. That cant be good for business.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can guarantee they will earn much more money if they get rid of everyone like me and you, who only play on Empire for a bonus.

I know you are upset that what has been a profitable thing for you will dissapear, but surely you must see that Empire is doing what makes perfect business sense.

William. They used a different language in your mail than the other mails ("suspicious and wrongful actions"). Perhaps there is something else that is wrong with your account, especially since it is so new. Are you sharing IP (via school etc) with a lot of others?

[William]

No, it is my private computer at home.

I am not really mad about they closing my account if they think I am only there for the bonuses. I do bonuses every now and then, but that's not why I play poker and I play at many other sites, so who really cares?
BUT, I find it unacceptable that they suggest that I am involved in "suspicious and wrongly activities"
I played there for almost a whole month, a little every day and made perhaps 4/500$, sign-up and reload bonus included. No big deal I would think....

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]
No, it is my private computer at home.

I am not really mad about they closing my account if they think I am only there for the bonuses. I do bonuses every now and then, but that's not why I play poker and I play at many other sites, so who really cares?
BUT, I find it unacceptable that they suggest that I am involved in "suspicious and wrongly activities"
I played there for almost a whole month, a little every day and made perhaps 4/500$, sign-up and reload bonus included. No big deal I would think....

[/ QUOTE ]

They should at least tell you why it is closed instead of being vague on purpose.

But both the language used and the fact that you have given them non-bonus action makes your case seem different from the others. Could it be tied to the affiliate you signed up under?

[KingMedicine]

does anyone else get the feeling that party is doing everything in their power right now to shut down party skin accounts with all of other skins? meaning, party is forcing the skins to close accounts of players with their skins if they're found to have a party account as well.

i think party has some grandiose idea that everyone will quit the skins and only play at party.

this party skin drama is so ridiculous that i fully believe, in the end, they will be costing themselves a ton of players.

they have such a great f'in thing going, but theyre being so greedy that they'll see it all tumbling down soon.

i bet stars and the other quality rooms are loving this.

(btw, i havent had any of my other skin accounts shut down yet, so this isnt just some f-party for closing my skin account post - i honestly feel they are messing up royaly right now.)

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
I have a buddy who plays there almost exclusively that has quit until this whole thing blows over just to be safe. That cant be good for business.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, that settles it!

[FlFishOn]

UB bonii are everywhere and for me they amount to rake-free poker forever for me and the gnome and the gnome's buddy.

On almost every front I find UB far superior to it's competition.

[VinnyTheFish]

<font color="blue"> This is my Empire email. It leaves me baffled. </font> If someone else posted this email - I am sorry - I could not find it. I found many "fraud" emails, but no warning emails.
First Email from “PAY_PRO”

[ QUOTE ]

Please call us back from the number registered on your poker account. This will enable us to serve you better in protecting your account information.

Call us at +1 (866) 299-8893 (Toll free for US &amp; Canada only) or +350 41003 (International Rates Apply). We are available 24 hrs, 7 days a week and will be glad to assist you.

If you would prefer we contact you, please reply to this Email with a convenient time for us to call.

If we do not hear from you, your poker account will be temporarily put on hold to ensure your online safety until we are able to speak to you.


[/ QUOTE ]
<font color="blue"> Please inform what account this is in reference to. I would prefer you to email me, but you may call after 8:00 pm EST (New York, USA) </font>

note: at this point I believe this is a scam, but I am a little curious. I only have money at 2 sites, so I am not concerned.

They reply:

[ QUOTE ]
Thank you for contacting us.

This is in regards to your Empire Poker account.

In regards to the account, we would need to ask that you contact the email address mentioned - vip@empirepoker.com.

If you have any questions please contact us. We are available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week to assist you.
http://www.pay-pro.com

*Please include your full name, telephone number and account name with all documents sent.



[/ QUOTE ]
Ok, now I am getting somewhere. I have read the Empire debacle and now this starts to make sense. I will now email Empire.

[Aytumious]

[ QUOTE ]
<font color="blue"> This is my Empire email. It leaves me baffled. </font> If someone else posted this email - I am sorry - I could not find it. I found many "fraud" emails, but no warning emails.
First Email from “PAY_PRO”

[ QUOTE ]

Please call us back from the number registered on your poker account. This will enable us to serve you better in protecting your account information.

Call us at +1 (866) 299-8893 (Toll free for US &amp; Canada only) or +350 41003 (International Rates Apply). We are available 24 hrs, 7 days a week and will be glad to assist you.

If you would prefer we contact you, please reply to this Email with a convenient time for us to call.

If we do not hear from you, your poker account will be temporarily put on hold to ensure your online safety until we are able to speak to you.


[/ QUOTE ]
<font color="blue"> Please inform what account this is in reference to. I would prefer you to email me, but you may call after 8:00 pm EST (New York, USA) </font>

note: at this point I believe this is a scam, but I am a little curious. I only have money at 2 sites, so I am not concerned.

They reply:

[ QUOTE ]
Thank you for contacting us.

This is in regards to your Empire Poker account.

In regards to the account, we would need to ask that you contact the email address mentioned - vip@empirepoker.com.

If you have any questions please contact us. We are available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week to assist you.
http://www.pay-pro.com

*Please include your full name, telephone number and account name with all documents sent.



[/ QUOTE ]
Ok, now I am getting somewhere. I have read the Empire debacle and now this starts to make sense. I will now email Empire.

[/ QUOTE ]

When they respond in 4 months, tell us what they said.

[William]

When they respond in 4 months, tell us what they said.

That is the exact same mail I got and started the whole thing. They answered in less than 30 minutes calling me a criminal! /images/graemlins/mad.gif

[gojacketz]

Has anyone been charting on Poker Pulse to see if this is having an effect on tables and players on Empire and/or Party?

Gojacketz

[M.B.E.]

William, I agree with you that this is obnoxious behaviour on Empire's part.

One thing you can do is complain to their regulator, the Government of Gibraltar. There is a phone number, postal address, and email address on this page (http://www.gibraltar.gov.gi/gov_depts/internet_gaming/internet_gaming.htm).

I don't know whether they will care, maybe not, but hopefully if they get a number of complaints they will tell Empire that it has to treat its customers reasonably.

[wbrumfiel]

[ QUOTE ]
I can guarantee they will earn much more money if they get rid of everyone like me and you, who only play on Empire for a bonus.

I know you are upset that what has been a profitable thing for you will dissapear, but surely you must see that Empire is doing what makes perfect business sense.

William. They used a different language in your mail than the other mails ("suspicious and wrongful actions"). Perhaps there is something else that is wrong with your account, especially since it is so new. Are you sharing IP (via school etc) with a lot of others?

[/ QUOTE ]
So if I have the potential to be one of these folks that plays 17 million tables at once (4 at each skin) at say 3/6 or 5/10 but right now im just a whore who is making money cheap to build up enough of a bankroll but they ban me prematurely giving up money that they would no doubt get back in the future (as I dont have any rakeback) is that a good business move? No, a BETTER move would be to either ban specific people from getting bonuses OR not give bonuses at all if they are that worried about it. I just think that if this is why they are banning people they are going about it in the wrong way. I dont doubt I cost them money right now as do all the other people who strictly whore the site but as I become a better player and have a bigger bankroll and decide to move to higher limits they have no chance of getting that money. Flame on.

[PsYcHo-ScHnAuZeR]

[ QUOTE ]
I dont doubt I cost them money right now as do all the other people who strictly whore the site but as I become a better player and have a bigger bankroll and decide to move to higher limits they have no chance of getting that money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bingo. Doesn't everyone start at the bottom (especially the fish)? They are killing their future 15/30 fish who haven't grown up yet.

[William]

Thanks M.B.E. I will consider your advice.
It's not that I really care about the closed account. Party and skins are not my home site, but I do think that it's over the line to call your customers for suspicious.'
I can't speak for the rest, but I know that I can sleep well at night... /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Rudbaeck]

[ QUOTE ]
Bingo. Doesn't everyone start at the bottom (especially the fish)? They are killing their future 15/30 fish who haven't grown up yet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Most fish just buy in for whatever they like to gamble with. Those who move up as their skill advances might make premature leaps, but most of them move back down, and make a second coming after polishing their play.

Yes, if you play a decent but not stellar post-flop play you will slowly bleed some chips to someone who does play a stellar post-flop game. But it's far from making you a fish. A TAG 3/6'er who moves up to 5/10 isn't suddenly going to see 65% of all flops and merrily go to the river on most hands...

In NL it's way more pronounced, as even small advantages is enough to break you. That's not really the case in limit though.

[VinnyTheFish]

I get home. Try to sign in, and the account is frozen. So I call the 866 #. Broken English man explains that only VIP can handle my account. I must email them.

I expain that I did. He states that only they can help and I should wait. I explain that many fellow players have waited long periods of time for responces and he should do his best to help me now - or - at least give me a reason why. (I have NO MONEY THERE).

I wait for 2 minutes and he comes back and states that they will email me shortly.

This can only get better! /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[SuitedSixes]

I opened an account at Empire last weekend. On Monday I received a welcome e-mail telling me that I had received an entry into the $5000 Newplayer Freeroll. When I e-mailed support, they said that April was the last month they were going to have the NPFR. Something MAY be up there, after all.

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]
I opened an account at Empire last weekend. On Monday I received a welcome e-mail telling me that I had received an entry into the $5000 Newplayer Freeroll. When I e-mailed support, they said that April was the last month they were going to have the NPFR. Something MAY be up there, after all.

[/ QUOTE ]

How about this for a crazy idea? Party is about to take over Empire. After all, they did it with PokerNow and with the IPO it would grow the company fast at a very low cost (compared to attracting that number of customers via advertising). Also it would bring back many high volume players.

Since Empire are a separate entity it would make sense with the "you have an account on both Party and Empire"-angle.

[VinnyTheFish]

[ QUOTE ]
Dear Vincent,

Thank you for contacting customer support.

We want to inform you that this account has been randomly checked and found to be consist with suspicious and wrongful actions that we don’t support at EmpirePoker.com. For this reason, we regret to inform you that the account has been closed permanently by management. Unfortunately, the process is not reversible.



[/ QUOTE ]

I have no idea what I could have done, unless playing when they offer a bonus is a crime.

I emailed back:
<font color="blue"> Please explain the exact activty that I have done. </font>

[VinnyTheFish]

Unfortunately, we cannot provide you with further information. The account has been closed due to Management desicion.

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

LOL - what trash.

[Siingo]

Sorry if this have been answerd somewhere else but I have not seen it....

Have someone have had any money at empire when your account have got closed?
If so, then what have happend with the money?

[grimel]

I have ONE Party account and ZERO skin accounts. I've played Party for nothing but reload/comeback bonus since Jan. Last week I played a few hours after the whore bans started. Right now I'm strongly considering cashing out my meager balance and removing the Party software. I win more $$ at other sites. I've been there checking out the supposedly uber fish filled games.

Even if the whores are paying less MGR than bonus the whores are filling seats keeping more tables going, thus the MGR from the fish/non-whores is greater than it would be without the multitabling whores.