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View Full Version : Common situation: laydown top pair on turn or river?

Wynton
05-06-2005, 11:53 AM
I'm wondering whether I'm calling in this situation too often. When I get raised on the turn here, I'm pretty sure that villain's got better than my top pair. Yet, I call reflexively. On the turn, at least I have an inside straight draw to go with my top pair. But should I be making this crying call on the river? Seems like I lose here enough that I should consider just laying it down.

My only read on the villain, by the way, is that he seems to be pretty typical, generally loose/passive 2/4 player.

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB completes, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP calls, SB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP folds, SB calls.

Turn: (4 BB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, Hero calls.

River: (8 BB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10 BB
sy_or_bust
05-06-2005, 12:25 PM
You'd be wrong not to show this hand down. It sucks to lose and feel pretty sure you could've folded to the c/r, but you don't want to begin folding TPTK to resistance without a stellar reason. And you didn't have one.
sublime
05-06-2005, 12:26 PM
I'm wondering whether I'm calling in this situation too often.

i really doubt it
Wynton
05-06-2005, 12:33 PM
OK, good. Just needed a little reassurance on these situations.

(Hope you're right.)
krishanleong
05-06-2005, 12:39 PM
[ QUOTE ]
OK, good. Just needed a little reassurance on these situations.

(Hope you're right.)

[/ QUOTE ]

He's right.

Krishan
Wynton
05-06-2005, 01:27 PM
You're all probably right, but I still can't help wondering whether the answer is less clear at 2/4 than 5/10 and above. At 2/4, when someone raises headsup like this, I think the chances are pretty good that he's got at least 2 pair.

Still, I shall continue dutifully calling down.
J.R.
05-06-2005, 01:42 PM
wow. This is an easy river fold unimproved against a known loose-passive 2-4 player. just be certain of the known loose passive player part, but the turn check-raise of a pfr on a broadway K high board by a loose passive means no chance you TPTK is good.
sublime
05-06-2005, 01:52 PM
i agree with you on this hand. my response was to basically say that i dount he is calling too much in spots like this, i would be more concerned if he was worried about folding too much in these situations. usually he has a decent amount of outs on the turn and when the river comes the pots is sizeable enough to call. in other words, i dont look for folds in these spots, but when the player fits the correct description i do fold unimproved.
Wynton
05-06-2005, 01:58 PM
OK, think I understand better now why this particular river call was bad, though the turn call I guess was ok.

Am I right that, as a general matter when I have AK and one pair, the odds will be there to see the river, since my opponent's raise (again, in general) more likely means 2 pair than anything else?
sublime
05-06-2005, 02:10 PM
OK, think I understand better now why this particular river call was bad, though the turn call I guess was ok.

if you 'know' the guy is passive postflop, then yeah calling the river is wrong. you need to be pretty sure though. in this case the board is coordinated in such a manner that you are probably beat a very large % of the time.

Am I right that, as a general matter when I have AK and one pair, the odds will be there to see the river, since my opponent's raise (again, in general) more likely means 2 pair than anything else?

yeah, of course the texture of the board has a real lot to do with it. the board in this instance makes it look like you are drawing pretty thin if behind. there will be other times when the board is 387K or 265K and your turn call becomes even more correct.