greatest player ever in the NBA?

[bwana devil]

I got into this debate w/ my friend a while ago and then someone in OOT threw out an NBA player’s name as the greatest ever to play as if it were fact a few days ago. Are there any serious basketball fans in the house w/ an opinion? (I am a casual observer of the game but am opinionated nonetheless /images/graemlins/smirk.gif).

[MoreWineII]

Depends on what you mean by greatest. I voted Jordan, btw.

Won scoring titles, won championships, was a leader - took the big shots, generated excitement every time he played, increased the popularity of the league, seemed like a decent guy off the court, on and on and on..

[swede123]

MJ. There is no arguing this one, fellas.

Swede

[Rick Diesel]

The only choices that should be on this poll are MJ, Wilt, and Oscar Robertson. Having Kareem on your poll clearly makes it a joke.

[davelin]

Not even close.

[BreakfastBurrito]

I'd have to go with Antoine Carr. I swear to god I never saw him miss a shot, must have been like 38 for 38 while I was watching in his career.

[tdarko]

jerome kersey



since he wasn't on the list i was FORCED to go with MJ.

[M2d]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd have to go with Antoine Carr. I swear to god I never saw him miss a shot, must have been like 38 for 38 while I was watching in his career.

[/ QUOTE ]
that's like me and John Kruk. granted, he was a pretty good hitter, but, with me watching (on TV) I think he hit arouind .600 and slugged around 1.000. I swear he went 2-4 or 3-4 with two doubles every time I saw his games.

[M2d]

I'm a huge Magic fan and Wilt obviously has to be considered, but it's Michael.

[swede123]

Hehe Darko. I really liked those Blazer teams that Kersey were part of. They were pretty stacked with Clyde, Jerome, Terry Porter, Buck Williams and Cliff Robinson. Too bad Duckworth was such a headcase back then, or they'd have a couple of more championships.

Swede

[bwana devil]

my vote is Wilt over Jordan. when their stats are compared side by side they are close but wilt just pulls ahead. wilt holds 50 records in the NBA (the most by a player)!!

one startling record: Wilt holds the record for the most games with 50+ points at 118 games in his career. (Michael Jordan is 2nd with 29 games.)

edit: wilt accomplished his records before the 3 point shot was introduced among other handicaps

[swede123]

You make a good argument, and it's pretty tough to vote against a guy who scored 100 points in a game. Seriously now, he himself scored more than many teams do. However, I think Wilt's success was more due to his incredible size/strength advantage. The league at the time simply couldn't counter him so it was like a grown man playing against children.

When MJ played the league was very competitive, the most competitive it's ever been in my opinion. Jordan overcame this and still kicked ass, in spite of being 6'6" and 220 lbs. And no one was better at making the shot when he had to than Michael. These are a few reasons why MJ is the right choice.

Swede

[augie00]

This is even worse than the Beatles vs. LZ thread. By a lot.

edit: and the answer is quami brown

[SomethingClever]

Modern era, Jordan, no question.

But I'm surprised Oscar Robertson isn't on the list.

Dude averaged a triple double for an entire season.

He was like 28/12/12 or some crazy [censored] like that.

If you're talking best all-around game, you can't ignore that.

[bwana devil]

perhaps you should spend more time in your masturbation chair.

[wjmooner]

Jordan by a mile. Kareem should probably be replaced by Oscar Robertson and/or Bill Russell.

Giving up 100 points to a center is an awful defensive job. Wilt ruled, but back then double teaming was seen as a bad idea. Fouling Wilt 50 times a game would've also worked. Against defensive minded coaches of today he would've put up numbers similar to Shaq in his prime.

WJ

[bwana devil]

[ QUOTE ]
But I'm surprised Oscar Robertson isn't on the list.

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually had robertson on the list originally but i knew overwhelmingly people would pick jordan because theyve seen him play and not favor more contemporary players.

[SackUp]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But I'm surprised Oscar Robertson isn't on the list.

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually had robertson on the list originally but i knew overwhelmingly people would pick jordan because theyve seen him play and not favor more contemporary players.

[/ QUOTE ]

This post makes no sense at all. If you were keeping people off the poll b/c you thought everyone would pick Jordan then why even have other options?? Oscar Robinson should have been clearly been on the list. Hence you too are a Polltard!

Also how is Shaq not on the list? His presence on both ends of the court is unmatched by anyone on this list. I still take Jordan, but he still deserves a mention.

[J.R.]

http://unlimited.nba.free.fr/kwame.jpg

[Boris]

Where's the box for Kurt Rambis?

[fnord_too]

Wilt slept with ~20K women, who can argue that he wasn't the greatest player ever?

[augie00]

YEAH BOY! YEAH BOY! PICK UP THE PHONE!

[tbach24]

Jordan. Not very close IMO. I agree with the others that Robertson should've been on this list, and find it absurd that he doesn't get the attention that Magic, Bird, Jabbar and the other legends get. I hadn't heard of him until I was like 12.

[bisonbison]

Larry Bird? Jesus H. Christ.

[swede123]

Now if the question was greatest honky player in the NBA Bird looks like a strong contender.

Swede

[bisonbison]

Yeah, I'm just saying that having Larry Bird on the short list is like putting Joe D. on the short list of best baseball players ever.

You can know he's an inner circle HOFer and still realize that he ain't near the best ever.

[NotMitch]

[ QUOTE ]
Larry Bird? Jesus H. Christ.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well he is the Basketball Jesus

[CCass]

I voted for MJ, but could make an argument for Wilt. There is no need to list other players. IMO, no good argument can be made (ok, Maybe the Big O) for any other player compared to these two.

[morello]

No option for Lebron? You will regret this poll in about 8 years.

[RunDownHouse]

Lebron, easy.

[augie00]

[ QUOTE ]
You will regret this poll in about 8 years.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol, potd

[jba]

John Stockton.


sorry I'm a homer

[The Dude]

Clearly it was Sam Bowie, then Clyde Drexler, then Michael Jordan.

[Dead]

[ QUOTE ]
Larry Bird? Jesus H. Christ.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's easily top 5 all time.

He was a better 3 pt shooter than Jordan, a better FT shooter, and while Jordan did average more PPG over his career, about 2/3 of those PPG can be attributed to getting to the free throw line more per game.

That said, I voted Jordan.

Bird is ahead of Magic, imo. And I hate the Celtics. But Bird's greatness cannot be denied.

If there are 3 seconds left on the shot clock, game 7 of the NBA finals, with the opposition leading by 2, there's no one I want more than Larry Bird to take that shot.

And having Bird on the short list is not like having DiMaggio on the short list. DiMaggio was top 30 all time. Bird is top 5 all time. Bird was much better at basketball than DiMaggio was at baseball.

Top 5 players of all time, imo:

Jordan
Chamberlain
Robertson
Bird
Kareem

[WEASEL45]

[ QUOTE ]
If there are 3 seconds left on the shot clock, game 7 of the NBA finals, with the opposition leading by 2, there's no one I want more than Larry Bird to take that shot.


[/ QUOTE ]
What about Robert Horry

[bosoxfan]

11 rings and he didn't make the list? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Dead]

Yeah I'm loving his lifetime FG% of 43%.

[SomethingClever]

To throw things into perspective, here are Oscar Robertson's ROOKIE stats. He led the league in assists that year.

Points: 30.5
Assists: 9.7
Rebounds: 10.1

He followed that up with these sophomore stats.

Points: 30.8
Assists: 11.4
Rebounds: 12.5

That might be the greatest season ever, seriously. Think about if a player was throwing up numbers like that these days.

Also, keep in mind that there was no 3-point shot.

For comparison, Jordan and LeBron's first two year stats.

Jordan Rookie Season

Points: 28.2
Assists: 5.9
Rebounds: 6.5

Jordan Third Season (I'll ignore his sophomore season, actually, since he was injured)

Points: 37.1
Assists: 4.6
Rebounds: 5.2


LeBron Rookie Season

Points: 20.9
Assists: 5.9
Rebounds: 5.5

LeBron Sophomore Season

Points: 27.2
Assists: 7.2
Rebounds: 7.4

[Aytumious]

[ QUOTE ]
To throw things into perspective, here are Oscar Robertson's ROOKIE stats. He led the league in assists that year.

Points: 30.5
Assists: 9.7
Rebounds: 10.1

He followed that up with these sophomore stats.

Points: 30.8
Assists: 11.4
Rebounds: 12.5

That might be the greatest season ever, seriously. Think about if a player was throwing up numbers like that these days.

Also, keep in mind that there was no 3-point shot.

For comparison, Jordan and LeBron's first two year stats.

Jordan Rookie Season

Points: 28.2
Assists: 5.9
Rebounds: 6.5

Jordan Third Season (I'll ignore his sophomore season, actually, since he was injured)

Points: 37.1
Assists: 4.6
Rebounds: 5.2


LeBron Rookie Season

Points: 20.9
Assists: 5.9
Rebounds: 5.5

LeBron Sophomore Season

Points: 27.2
Assists: 7.2
Rebounds: 7.4

[/ QUOTE ]

Different era, but the Big O's numbers are extremely impressive. That being said, Jordan's unbelievable dominance in clutch situations as well as his huge psychological edge over the opposition -- combined, of course with his stellar numbers, particularly his FG% -- make him the clear favorite in this competion. If you were up 90-89 and the Bulls had the last posession, you probably felt like you had already lost.

[lil_o]

Uhm... where is Bill Russell?????

[bisonbison]

Yeah, Bird is ahead of Magic, but there's still a big gap - a biiiig gap between the top three ever in basketball and #4 - whoever you put there.

He's eating dust.

[Dead]

Ted Williams will never measure up to Babe Ruth. Ruth is better, and it's not even close.

But that doesn't diminish Ted's accomplishments at all.

Likewise, Bird's accomplishments are not diminished by the success of Jordan.

And it's also important to point out that Jordan played a different position than Bird for most of his career. While some will say that small forward and shooting guard are very similar positions, I would disagree with that. Bird was a small forward, and Jordan was a guard until he came back after retirement.

Bird averaged almost 4 more rebounds per game than Jordan. I just don't agree with the statement that Jordan was light years better than Bird. Was he better? Yeah. But not by a huge amount. Jordan was better than Bird like Clemens is better than Randy Johnson.

[WEASEL45]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah I'm loving his lifetime FG% of 43%.

[/ QUOTE ] You said last shot in a game 7. not who has a better lifetime fg%

[ttleistdci]

Why are we even having this discussion? Anyone with half a brain knows it's Jordan.
And to the original poster...Magic Johnson and Kareem have no business on this list, especially when the likes of Oscar Robertson and Bill Rusell have been left off.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
Ted Williams will never measure up to Babe Ruth. Ruth is better, and it's not even close.

But that doesn't diminish Ted's accomplishments at all.

Likewise, Bird's accomplishments are not diminished by the success of Jordan.

And it's also important to point out that Jordan played a different position than Bird for most of his career. While some will say that small forward and shooting guard are very similar positions, I would disagree with that. Bird was a small forward, and Jordan was a guard until he came back after retirement.

Bird averaged almost 4 more rebounds per game than Jordan. I just don't agree with the statement that Jordan was light years better than Bird. Was he better? Yeah. But not by a huge amount. Jordan was better than Bird like Clemens is better than Randy Johnson.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, Dead sounding rational and making a good point? Who would have thought it could happen?

[goofball]

I was a diehard Blazers fan when Jordan was kicking our asses every year.

It's Jordan and it's not close

[itsmesteve]

I'm really not sure he was better than Jordan (and I'm too young to have seen him play) but the Big O has to be on this list.

[tdarko]

you forgot roy tarpley.

[tdarko]

[ QUOTE ]
Jordan was better than Bird like Clemens is better than Randy Johnson

[/ QUOTE ]
you obviously did well on this portion of the verbal when taking the SAT's.

[Dead]

Is that sarcasm? I did do much better on the verbal than on the math, admittedly.

And analogies were the weakest part of my verbal.

[bisonbison]

There are position issues, but there's an era problem too. Picking Elgin Baylor over Bird gives you 4 more PTs/game, +3 rebs/, -2 assists/.

Frankly, I picked dimaggio because he's an inner circle hall of famer but clearly not the best player ever, and I still feel that way about Bird, but baseball stats are a lot easier to evaluate independent of team dynamics and performance.

[tdarko]

i know you catch a lot of flack here but you should know i haven't ever givin' you any [censored]. it WASN'T sarcasm.

instead of saying good post like everyone else i just wanted to tell you that the analogy is why i liked your post...so um good post. /images/graemlins/grin.gif don't be so gunshy dead.

[Dead]

Ok Lawrence. /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[istewart]

Jordan liked to gamble. This is a gambling forum. Jordan wins.

[rlpsjstyle]

As others have said, a serious poll would have at least included Oscar Robertson as a choice.

Being from completely different eras, I'm not sure if I'd rather have Jordan or Robertson in their prime. I'd probably choose the Big O in a close one, if only because I think he could do whatever you needed him to on a night-in, night-out basis moreso than Jordan.

Oscar averaged 25.7 PPG, 9.5 APG and 7.5 RPG for his 14 year career. Consistency and longevity. I'd take that any day.

[bugstud]

George Mikan might need to be on this list too, but I dunno. Jabbar was good but a lot of that is from his college dominance, his NBA career wasn't at as high of a peak as say Wilt.

I concur with Oscar needing to be on there btw.

[LSUfan1]

[ QUOTE ]
MJ. There is no arguing this one, fellas.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know there have been many greats, but noone has changed the face of ANY game the way Jordon has! At least not here in the states.

[LSUfan1]

[ QUOTE ]
my vote is Wilt over Jordan. when their stats are compared side by side they are close but wilt just pulls ahead. wilt holds 50 records in the NBA (the most by a player)!!

one startling record: Wilt holds the record for the most games with 50+ points at 118 games in his career. (Michael Jordan is 2nd with 29 games.)

edit: wilt accomplished his records before the 3 point shot was introduced among other handicaps

[/ QUOTE ]

You want a handicap. Level of play! The competition inside in Wilt's day was not nearly what Jordan had to deal with on a daily basis.

You think Wilt would have scored 80 on Shaq? Not likely!

[Aytumious]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
my vote is Wilt over Jordan. when their stats are compared side by side they are close but wilt just pulls ahead. wilt holds 50 records in the NBA (the most by a player)!!

one startling record: Wilt holds the record for the most games with 50+ points at 118 games in his career. (Michael Jordan is 2nd with 29 games.)

edit: wilt accomplished his records before the 3 point shot was introduced among other handicaps

[/ QUOTE ]

You want a handicap. Level of play! The competition inside in Wilt's day was not nearly what Jordan had to deal with on a daily basis.

You think Wilt would have scored 80 on Shaq? Not likely!

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think, even with modern excercise and diet practices, that Wilt would have had the girth to deal with Shaq. He would have been great, but his game would have to have been much different with people taller than 6'7" guarding him.

[ScottTheFish]

MJ and it's not very close.

One thing people always overlook in these discussions is that Jordan was one of the premiere DEFENDERS of his era, in addition to all the scoring titles, etc. That gives him a huge edge over guys like Magic and Bird, IMO.

I agree with Bison about Bird...top 5 but I'd much rather have Jordan on my team. Bird played on a team full of hall of famers, MJ not so much. He won rings with guys named Bill Wennington and Luc Longley playing Center.

I can see an argument for Wilt, since nobody dominated the game like him...but tough to compare eras.

[bwana devil]

nba didnt also record blocks and steals back in wilt's day though. he most would cream jordan in stats on defense had they kept records

[Aytumious]

[ QUOTE ]
nba didnt also record blocks and steals back in wilt's day though. he most would cream jordan in stats on defense had they kept records

[/ QUOTE ]

Stats really aren't the point here.

[bwana devil]

[ QUOTE ]
You want a handicap. Level of play! The competition inside in Wilt's day was not nearly what Jordan had to deal with on a daily basis.

[/ QUOTE ]

good point. but wilt's level of play was different too. his play would have improved im sure given conditioning and training changes.

ill give you another handicap though too. jordan was taking chartered jets to games. not wilt. and wilt was dealing w/ a tighter schedule too.

[Aytumious]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You want a handicap. Level of play! The competition inside in Wilt's day was not nearly what Jordan had to deal with on a daily basis.

[/ QUOTE ]

good point. but wilt's level of play was different too. his play would have improved im sure given conditioning and training changes.

ill give you another handicap though too. jordan was taking chartered jets to games. not wilt. and wilt was dealing w/ a tighter schedule too.

[/ QUOTE ]

How do you think a modern Wilt would have fared against Garnett, Duncan, Shaq, and Ben Wallace? Given his frame, it's likely he would not even be as big as Duncan, and he certainly was not -- nor did he have the potential to be -- a complete freak like KG. He would have been an excellent player in the modern game, but nowhere close to what he was, and nowhere close to how great Jordan was, in the much more competitively balanced modern game.

[davelin]

There's some questions to how Wilt would've done had he played during Michael's era. There are absolutely no questions had Michael played in his era.

[Aytumious]

[ QUOTE ]
There's some questions to how Wilt would've done had he played during Michael's era. There are absolutely no questions had Michael played in his era.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. Remember "Sweet River Baines?" Nuff said...

[Phoenix1010]

This thread deserves no replies, so I'm not going to read them. The NBA provides perhaps the easiest answer to this question in all of sports (aside from maybe hockey). Jordan, and it's not even near close.

[bisonbison]

I know there have been many greats, but noone has changed the face of ANY game the way Jordon has! At least not here in the states.

Babe Ruth. By a lot.

[Dead]

Norm Duke.

Norm Duke (March 25, 1964-) is an American professional bowler.

Born in Mount Pleasant, Texas, he moved in Dallas, after his father sold the bowling alley their family owned. He began bowling at age 7, and turned pro at age 18. That year, he became the youngest player in Professional Bowlers Association history to win a title, after winning the Cleveland Open in 1983.

He has bowled 36 perfect games in national competition, and has won 22 PBA titles, including the American Bowling Congress Masters and PBA National Championship. He has also bowled the highest-scoring losing game in televised PBA history, losing 296-280, against Bryan Goebel in 1994.

[bisonbison]

Public importance of Pro Bowling before Norm Duke: miniscule
Public importance of Pro Bowling after Norm Duke: miniscule

[istewart]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Dead]

Bowling sure pays some shitty money. But it is hella fun.

[Emmitt2222]

[ QUOTE ]
Walter Ray Williams, Jr.
over $3.4 million in career earnings, including a single-season record with $419,700 in winnings over the 2002-03 season.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, you can barely buy a mansion with that money...

[Dead]

That's like one of the best bowlers ever.

I was under the impression that most of the lower ranked bowlers make MUCH less money.

[pryor15]

[ QUOTE ]
I know there have been many greats, but noone has changed the face of ANY game the way Jordon has! At least not here in the states.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bill Russell...by a lot. MJ changed the public opinion of the game, but Russell changed the actual game.

[jesusarenque]

Wilt. Voting for anyone else is pretty silly, really.

[thatpfunk]

O

[on_thg]

Ben Poquette, and it's not close.

[LSUfan1]

[ QUOTE ]
I know there have been many greats, but noone has changed the face of ANY game the way Jordon has! At least not here in the states.

Babe Ruth. By a lot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess I would have to give you that, and there could probably be a case made for Gretzky too. The point is, MJ rules the top of the leaderboard in the NBA!

[LSUfan1]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I know there have been many greats, but noone has changed the face of ANY game the way Jordon has! At least not here in the states.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bill Russell...by a lot. MJ changed the public opinion of the game, but Russell changed the actual game.

[/ QUOTE ]

While your post does have some merit, by saying that Russell's play did change the game, you cannot say that Jordan only changed the game in public opinion.

Did anyone really know what a fade away jumper was before Michael perfected this skill?

And his defensive game was a thing of beauty that should be studied by all future NBA hopefulls(as this was pointed out in a prior post).

[andyfox]

Most people will vote for MJ today. We old-timers probably still favor MJ, but not by as wide a margin as he's winning this poll. Wilt was so dominating that, in college, several rules had to be changed to accommodate his game: the lane was widened, offensive goaltending was instituted, and you had to let go of a free throw while you were still behind the line. (Wilt could take a running jump and, taking off behind the line, dunk the ball!)

Oscar Robertson was just about as good a player as MJ. His lifetime stats are awesome. But i doubt many people who voted in your poll saw him play.

Some say Bill Russell was the greatest. He was a great player, but he won all those championships surrounded by a great supporting cast and under a coach who knew his stuff.

Magic should be considered too. The only player who, according to Julius Erving, could score four points in a game and be in complete control of it at both ends of the court.

My vote would be:

1) Wilt
2) MJ
3) Oscar
4) Magic
5) Kareem

[Dead]

I really don't know how you can place Magic ahead of Bird.

[Los Feliz Slim]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Larry Bird? Jesus H. Christ.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's easily top 5 all time.

He was a better 3 pt shooter than Jordan, a better FT shooter, and while Jordan did average more PPG over his career, about 2/3 of those PPG can be attributed to getting to the free throw line more per game.

That said, I voted Jordan.

Bird is ahead of Magic, imo. And I hate the Celtics. But Bird's greatness cannot be denied.

If there are 3 seconds left on the shot clock, game 7 of the NBA finals, with the opposition leading by 2, there's no one I want more than Larry Bird to take that shot.

And having Bird on the short list is not like having DiMaggio on the short list. DiMaggio was top 30 all time. Bird is top 5 all time. Bird was much better at basketball than DiMaggio was at baseball.

Top 5 players of all time, imo:

Jordan
Chamberlain
Robertson
Bird
Kareem

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't care what anyone else says about you, Dead, you're alright in my book. Excellent post.

[Dead]

[ QUOTE ]

I don't care what anyone else says about you, Dead, you're alright in my book. Excellent post.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you. I appreciate that.

[andyfox]

Living in L.A., I saw Magic play a lot more than I did Bird. I wonder what players who played against both of them in that era think?

[J_V]

Norm Duke isn't the best bowler on tour. Walter Ray. No wonder you bowl 120's.

[Dead]

It's 160s now.

[Phoenix1010]

The big problem with voting for either Russel or Wilt is that many people would argue that they were not better than Shaq in his prime. Also, As is the case for all arguments about all-time greatest players, the time period makes it very hard to judge between players at the same position.

[Dead]

Wilt > Shaq. And it's not close.

[Duke]

Bird has no place on this thread.

If the question were "who made the most out of substandard physical ability?" Bird would be the clear winner. If it were "who was the best clutch performer in the history of the NBA?" Bird would be on the list.

Saying that Larry Bird is even among the best of all time is like saying that Kirk Gibson is among the best baseball players of all time.

Both had hearts like Secretariat, and both gave 190% every game, but neither were near the top performers of all time in their respective games.

At the Bird retirement thing at Boston Garden in '93, Magic took the microphone and said: “Larry, you only told me one lie. You said there will be another Larry Bird. Larry, there will never, ever be another Larry Bird.”

Bird's story and career were a lot like what would have happened if Rudy would have made it to the NFL. It's a great story that should never be forgotten. It makes you sad to see them go. You wish that your kids would get a chance to see someone with that little natural ability accomplish so much. It's like watching a retard win a Nobel prize. It makes you want to cry in embarassment with the knowledge that you've done so much less with so much more.

But to say Bird was the best is like saying that the retard is smarter than Newton.

~D

[Phoenix1010]

[ QUOTE ]
Wilt > Shaq. And it's not close.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sorry, I forgot how many times you've seen Wilt play. You're certainly qualified.

[Phoenix1010]

[ QUOTE ]
Bird has no place on this thread.

If the question were "who made the most out of substandard physical ability?" Bird would be the clear winner. If it were "who was the best clutch performer in the history of the NBA?" Bird would be on the list.

Saying that Larry Bird is even among the best of all time is like saying that Kirk Gibson is among the best baseball players of all time.

Both had hearts like Secretariat, and both gave 190% every game, but neither were near the top performers of all time in their respective games.

At the Bird retirement thing at Boston Garden in '93, Magic took the microphone and said: “Larry, you only told me one lie. You said there will be another Larry Bird. Larry, there will never, ever be another Larry Bird.”

Bird's story and career were a lot like what would have happened if Rudy would have made it to the NFL. It's a great story that should never be forgotten. It makes you sad to see them go. You wish that your kids would get a chance to see someone with that little natural ability accomplish so much. It's like watching a retard win a Nobel prize. It makes you want to cry in embarassment with the knowledge that you've done so much less with so much more.

But to say Bird was the best is like saying that the retard is smarter than Newton.

~D

[/ QUOTE ]

Um, Larry bird is widely regarded as the best power forward of all time. His accomplishments both overall and particularly when he was needed the most are impressive enough to land him in the top ten at least, if not top five.

[scrub]

[ QUOTE ]
The only choices that should be on this poll are MJ, Wilt, and Oscar Robertson. Having Kareem on your poll clearly makes it a joke.

[/ QUOTE ]

scrub

[jakethebake]

if ever there was a thread that didnt deserve this many replaies, it's this one. this isnt close, people. there's nothing worth debating.

[xorbie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Bird has no place on this thread.

If the question were "who made the most out of substandard physical ability?" Bird would be the clear winner. If it were "who was the best clutch performer in the history of the NBA?" Bird would be on the list.

Saying that Larry Bird is even among the best of all time is like saying that Kirk Gibson is among the best baseball players of all time.

Both had hearts like Secretariat, and both gave 190% every game, but neither were near the top performers of all time in their respective games.

At the Bird retirement thing at Boston Garden in '93, Magic took the microphone and said: “Larry, you only told me one lie. You said there will be another Larry Bird. Larry, there will never, ever be another Larry Bird.”

Bird's story and career were a lot like what would have happened if Rudy would have made it to the NFL. It's a great story that should never be forgotten. It makes you sad to see them go. You wish that your kids would get a chance to see someone with that little natural ability accomplish so much. It's like watching a retard win a Nobel prize. It makes you want to cry in embarassment with the knowledge that you've done so much less with so much more.

But to say Bird was the best is like saying that the retard is smarter than Newton.

~D

[/ QUOTE ]

Um, Larry bird is widely regarded as the best power forward of all time. His accomplishments both overall and particularly when he was needed the most are impressive enough to land him in the top ten at least, if not top five.

[/ QUOTE ]

Small forward...

[Phoenix1010]

Woops, brainfart.

[Myrtle]

[ QUOTE ]
11 rings and he didn't make the list? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

...I know....pretty humorous, ain't it!!

/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[LSUfan1]

[ QUOTE ]
Wilt > Shaq. And it's not close.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are only considering this because of Wilt's stats. The truth is, if the 2 were to play in the same era Shaq would have dominated as he looked down and said "Nice try small fry!"

[istewart]

Nevermind

[Phoenix1010]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Wilt > Shaq. And it's not close.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are only considering this because of Wilt's stats.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a good point. A lot of Wilt's statistical dominance owes to the level of competition he faced, and conventions of the game which have died out since his time. There's also the fact that he was the most prolific shooter in the history of the NBA, averaging more than 32 shots per game in his first four seasons. He had over 2000 FG attempted in his first six seasons (1990 in his seventh). Shaq has never had more than 1700 in a season, and Jordan had only one season with more than 2000. Wilt's 3159 FGA in '62 is just as crazy as some of his other records. This is all while leading the league in free throws attempted as well.

[ QUOTE ]
The truth is, if the 2 were to play in the same era Shaq would have dominated as he looked down and said "Nice try small fry!"

[/ QUOTE ]

This is just as silly as Dead's claim.

[Aytumious]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Wilt > Shaq. And it's not close.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are only considering this because of Wilt's stats.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a good point. A lot of Wilt's statistical dominance owes to the level of competition he faced, and conventions of the game which have died out since his time. There's also the fact that he was the most prolific shooter in the history of the NBA, averaging more than 32 shots per game in his first four seasons. He had over 2000 FG attempted in his first six seasons (1990 in his seventh). Shaq has never had more than 1700 in a season, and Jordan had only one season with more than 2000. Wilt's 3159 FGA in '62 is just as crazy as some of his other records. This is all while leading the league in free throws attempted as well.

[ QUOTE ]
The truth is, if the 2 were to play in the same era Shaq would have dominated as he looked down and said "Nice try small fry!"

[/ QUOTE ]

This is just as silly as Dead's claim.

[/ QUOTE ]

You could try to imagine Shaq playing during Wilt's era. Even without the added weight training and nutritional science, Shaq would have been massive and nimble, moreso than Chamberlain. It would have been carnage on a scale larger than Wilt's.

[bugstud]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Wilt > Shaq. And it's not close.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are only considering this because of Wilt's stats.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a good point. A lot of Wilt's statistical dominance owes to the level of competition he faced, and conventions of the game which have died out since his time. There's also the fact that he was the most prolific shooter in the history of the NBA, averaging more than 32 shots per game in his first four seasons. He had over 2000 FG attempted in his first six seasons (1990 in his seventh). Shaq has never had more than 1700 in a season, and Jordan had only one season with more than 2000. Wilt's 3159 FGA in '62 is just as crazy as some of his other records. This is all while leading the league in free throws attempted as well.

[ QUOTE ]
The truth is, if the 2 were to play in the same era Shaq would have dominated as he looked down and said "Nice try small fry!"

[/ QUOTE ]

This is just as silly as Dead's claim.

[/ QUOTE ]

You could try to imagine Shaq playing during Wilt's era. Even without the added weight training and nutritional science, Shaq would have been massive and nimble, moreso than Chamberlain. It would have been carnage on a scale larger than Wilt's.

[/ QUOTE ]

He would have fouled out in a quarter then

[college_boy]

Wilt getting only 11% is a travesty.

[pryor15]

[ QUOTE ]
And (Jordan's) defensive game was a thing of beauty that should be studied by all future NBA hopefulls(as this was pointed out in a prior post).

[/ QUOTE ]

and bill russell's wasn't?

george mikan changed the game of basketball more than MJ could even hope to claim. not to say MJ wasn't a top3 of all-time, but he didn't revolutionize the game. he took it to greater heights, but he didn't revolutionize the game itself. just the sneaker sales.

[Schneids]

Once again the youthfulness of this board shows through. The fact Wilt isn't winning is sick.

[Jack of Arcades]

[ QUOTE ]
Ted Williams will never measure up to Babe Ruth. Ruth is better, and it's not even close.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bzzzzt. Try again.

[CripAces]

Wilt is the only player in NBA history to both score 100 in a game, and have a double triple where he scored more than 20 points, and had mor than 20 assits and rebounds. While Jordan is great there is no comparison.

[davelin]

[ QUOTE ]
Wilt is the only player in NBA history to both score 100 in a game, and have a double triple where he scored more than 20 points, and had mor than 20 assits and rebounds. While Jordan is great there is no comparison.

[/ QUOTE ]

How about the other bajillion accomplishments Jordan has done that Wilt hasn't? I can't believe you're basis this on the merits of two games.

[ggbman]

It's jordan and it's not even close.