TruePoker will send me to the WSOP if I can play 120k Hands by 6/30/05

[O Doyle Rules]

Hi All,

First a little background about how this came about. Recently, 2 + 2 poster Stu Pidasso suggested in a post that high volume players should organize into a group and negotiate directly or "collectively bargain" with a poker site for the group's business. (He originally used the word union to describe the group, which he later deemed a poor choice of words and then called the proposed group an association instead) If you would like to go back and read that thread, do a search for Player's Union or search for Stu Pidasso's recent posts.

Instead of the thread developing into a pro and con discussion about the possibility, it quickly degenerated into a bashing of unions and a discussion about how the poker sites really hate the high volume players anyway because they are "leeches" on the system and the poker sites would never negotiate for their business.

The only bright spot that came out of this was the TruePoker CEO came forward and expressed an interest in perhaps attracting high volume players to their site and asked for suggestions by email on how to accomplish this.

I emailed the TruepPoker CEO and offered up some ideas and as an afterthought, I sent him an email outlining a scenario on how he could earn my business individually. I told him I would agree to play a high volume of hands at his poker site during the months of May & June in exchange for a paid entry into the WSOP No Limit Championship, including hotel and travel expense. After some back and forth discussions, he agreed!

Here is how it will work:

I will have to play 120,000 hands at TruePoker by June 30th and in return for this TruePoker will pay the $ 10,000 entry fee into the WSOP No Limit Championship along with hotel and travel costs for myself and my wife. Due to the high number of hands I have to play to win the trip, TruePoker will allow me to play up to 8 tables.

Even with 8 tabling, this will still prove to be a healthy challenge. I am someone who plays alot of online poker, but I still have a full time job to contend with. I calculate it will take me approximately 350 hours of online play to hit the 120,000 hand mark by the June 30th deadline.

Wish me luck (that I don't lose a WSOP entry fee over the next 120,000 hands) and pray that I don't develop carpal tunnel. Seriously, I appreciate the opportunity and am looking forward to be sitting at the WSOP final table! So much for those who said that poker sites would not negotiate or want high volume players at their sites!

The challenge starts now!

(I will be posting updates in regards to my progress)

[SoftcoreRevolt]

This is pretty damn cool. I'm sure there's way more profitable ways to play 120K hands, but this is still cool.

[BradleyT]

So it's $.10 per hand, not too bad.

[Benholio]

Too bad this isn't some sort of open promotion. I love marathon type promotions. Like the party cruise promotion, except not geared towards high-limit players only.

[BusterStacks]

[ QUOTE ]

Wish me luck (that I don't lose a WSOP entry fee over the next 120,000 hands)

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is going to be your biggest problem, I have played with you at the Party 3/6 and 5/10. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Shoe]

Is this offer open to others as well?

[AncientPC]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Wish me luck (that I don't lose a WSOP entry fee over the next 120,000 hands)

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is going to be your biggest problem, I have played with you at the Party 3/6 and 5/10. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Zing!

[Recliner]

I'd imagine you'd have to play something like 4 hours a day to meet this goal. I suppose if you can get over 20 hours in over a weekend you should be able to easily achieve it... Unless you get sick of poker which would be bad.

I'm assuming you'll end up with $12000 if you do this which would be .10 a hand played which is a pretty good bonus. This is kinda like the $10k party bonus that never happend.

I bet TruePoker CEO is enjoying all the PMs he's getting now. (BTW I'd do this too.)

[krazyace5]

Why doesn't True Poker start up a rake back program to take some of the Party/skins business? hint hint

[BusterStacks]

I would do it if you could opt for the $10k instead.

[MicroBob]

which is better than you can get in a typical rake-back deal....but in rake-back you can play when you want and don't have to kill yourself.



But 15k hands a week over 8 weeks isn't so bad. Obviously a bit tougher since you have a full-time job.


Sure beats the other deal that someone posted last week where some affiliate group would send you to the WSOP if you played 1 million hands (and you can get it done next year or the year after and just go to the next WSOP main event).



I guess I'll be curious to read these updates.

Essentially...for $0.10/hand it looks like they are paying you to be a mega 8-tabling prop for 8 weeks.

They won't be making anything off of your play but you'll be giving them plenty of exposure with your updates on here AND keeping their games going so I don't really think they are losing either.


I do think they are to be commended for at least trying to generate ideas as well as listening to their customers (although several around here have commented that their support is pretty bad sometimes...I don't play there so I have no experience).

[hicherbie]

sounds like a deal. good luck.

[IggyWH]

I don't know what level you play at and I've never played on True so excuse me if this sounds rude...

but are you going to be able to play 8 tables at once on True?

[MicroBob]

I've played with him on the 5/10....and I'm not unhappy to learn that I won't have to be dealing with him on my tables for the next 8 weeks.


BTW - even though my critique of doing this might be a bit negative....I would very seriously consider doing this also if it were an open promotion.
And this is from someone who has never even played their site before.

But I kind of dig those marathon-type promotions also (obviously).

[IggyWH]

[ QUOTE ]
BTW - even though my critique of doing this might be a bit negative....I would very seriously consider doing this also if it were an open promotion.
And this is from someone who has never even played their site before.

But I kind of dig those marathon-type promotions also (obviously).

[/ QUOTE ]

I know I'd try it for sure, but $.5-1 NL wouldn't generate enough rake.

[LinusKS]

If he's playing 3/6, the average rake should be about $2, or 0.20/person, ten-handed. If half the pots are raked, it'll be a break-even deal for True Poker. Probably more than half will be raked though.

Amazing how much we pay, isn't it?

Plus there's always the chance he might win, which would be great for True Poker. It would be a great story, it would get a lot of press.

If he 8-tables, and gets 50 hands per table hour, that's 400 hands/hour, and he needs 2000 per day, so that's a minimum of 5 hours a day. But it'll probably turn out to be more than that, between tables breaking up and whatnot.

That'll be tough to do, imho.

I wish him luck though.

[hogua]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know what level you play at and I've never played on True so excuse me if this sounds rude...

but are you going to be able to play 8 tables at once on True?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've never played there either, but I have been wanting to check it out mainly due to TruePokerCeo's posts here.

I've wondered the same thing about the number of games available there.

O Doyle Rules, if there is a shortage of games, please put the word out here and I'm sure you'll find plenty of 2+2ers willing to jump in and prop up some games for you. I'll be there, for sure.

Good luck!

[Freudian]

That's great. Just shows how far you can come when you present something that is attractive to all parties involved.

[MicroBob]

When I did the party till you cruise promotion I played about 20k hands of 10/20 6-max in 4 days.

My pokertracker said I paid almost $7k in rake but i forget how that's calculated and think it's a bit different.

Figure 5 players average per table...$2 rake average.
That's $0.40/hd in rake perhaps.
At 20k hands X $0.40/hd that's $8k so it appears my p-tracker number isn't too far off from my own very rough estimate.


So on my play alone Party didn't lose too much based on my play to win the cruise (the package was $12.4k total).
And this obviously doesn't include all those who played a massive amount during that week only to fall short and NOT get the cruise.

[AAmaz0n]

Wow, cool idea. Good luck and I hope that you make it.

Are they counting all hands or just those raked? I don't doubt that it can be done, although True tables are not particularly fast and it may take more time to accumulate the hands than it would at 6max party games.

I'd go for a deal like this in a heartbeat, maybe someone else will come up with a similar deal now.

Shauna

[Hung]

You will be generating 18K in rake, so it's more like bonus clearing, with the risk of not getting to 12OK hands and getting nothing...

[Benholio]

[ QUOTE ]
You will be generating 18K in rake, so it's more like bonus clearing, with the risk of not getting to 12OK hands and getting nothing...

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, its like bonus clearing if a site had a $12,000 reload bonus. 120k hands is a lot, but even if they are raked hands, it is over 8x better than the 1,000,000 raked hand promotion that prima affiliate program is offering.

If you are really paying 18k in rake, that is still 66% rakeback, which is good.

I like marathon type deals because along with the value of whatever they are offering, it is motivating the player to put in a ton of hours. Maybe I'm lazy, but I get more hours in if with the carrot there.

[Hung]

It's the best rakeback deal there is.
But there's no back up. Imagine you have about 110K hands, you get nothing.
I'd like to do it, but I can't play that much.

[r3vbr]

I wanna do this deal! Please give me the email of the pokerrooms CEO/staff so I can arrange the deal myself!

my email/msn r3v@terra.com.br
or pvt msg me.
Thanks!

[meow_meow]

Are there limitations on the games you can play (i.e. nothing below 3-6, limit only....)?
Even without limits, your main problem is going to be finding 8 games going when you want to play.

[mackthefork]

Sounds a tough ask, but a good incentive, that much poker would drive me insane, good luck.

Mack

[TruePoker CEO]

You are welcome to play against ODoyle of course ....

Truepoker CEO

[O Doyle Rules]

[ QUOTE ]
That's great. Just shows how far you can come when you present something that is attractive to all parties involved.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Freudian,

You hit the nail on the head. My motivating factor in this was the fact that some posters were so negative about Stu Pidasso's idea and were so adamant that no poker sites would want to compete for or negotiate for a high volume player's play, I got motivated to prove them wrong.

I for one, hope Stu's idea of an association for high volume players gets off the ground. It can only help all players.

[O Doyle Rules]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Wish me luck (that I don't lose a WSOP entry fee over the next 120,000 hands)

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is going to be your biggest problem, I have played with you at the Party 3/6 and 5/10. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


Hey Buster,

I think this is the second time you dissed my game on this fourm. That's ok, I realize there are many posters out here that are far superior players than me. You could be one, I don't know. As I said before I don't think you are impressing anyone but saying you can take my money at the tables. Get in line! If it were some of the other posters who are recognized to be top notch players that you were claimimg to crush, now that would be a different story. (If you are as good as you indicate it appears that you might not have learned the lesson of not tapping the glass, you might scare the fish (me) away.)

Oh, by the way, are you registered for the WSOP yet and what hotel will you be staying at?

[O Doyle Rules]

[ QUOTE ]
I've played with him on the 5/10....and I'm not unhappy to learn that I won't have to be dealing with him on my tables for the next 8 weeks.


[/ QUOTE ]

This Bob is a pretty smart guy. He knows what to say to keep the fish coming back.

[Sarge85]

Good luck man!

Sarge/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[O Doyle Rules]

[ QUOTE ]
Are there limitations on the games you can play (i.e. nothing below 3-6, limit only....)?
Even without limits, your main problem is going to be finding 8 games going when you want to play.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is no restriction on the limit I have to play.

With the number of tables going during the day hours this would be a problem, and some will be during that time period, but the majority of my play will be in the evenings, with marathon sessions on the weekends, and those times there should be no problem in finding 8 tables to play.

[Derek in NYC]

I assume you're going to do this short handed and not at full ring.

[TruePoker CEO]

For our part, ODoyle's play should help educate Truepoker as to "High volume" play. We only started offering multi-tables late last year, and have a lot to learn about players who play at such rates.

Aside from the appeal of associating with an innovative WSOP promo created by ODoyle, Truepoker is interested in getting and keeping business from what are new markets for us. To do so, we have to learn some basics.

Truepoker CEO

[O Doyle Rules]

Okay, I won't be making daily updates, probably more like weekly updates, but I thought I would share some of my experiences with my first shot at this.

I started playing shortly after I made this post last night and got in only about 1.5 hours of play. The graphics at TruePoker are very good except for the far end of the table where it is difficult for me to tell if players have cards in play or not, and especially with having my screen resolution set to 1600 x 1200. A trip to the local pharmacy will be made to pick me up some cheap reading glasses. (Which I have to admit that I need anyway.)

I can play any limit, so initially I have decided to play mostly 1/2 and 2/4 to get my feet wet. I was opening up one table at a time, and after I got the fifth table open, it started to become difficult for me, so I just stuck with keeping 5 open. I think part of the reason multi-tabling at True could be slightly more difficult than say at party is because of the 3D effect and the movement of the players in the games. That is the players pushing their chips into the pot, tapping the table to indicate a check and when a player folds. I think this did throw me off a little, just out of the usual 8 table mode I would be in. I am hoping as I adjust to the distraction of the motion, that I can add more tables. Otherwise, this challenge could become very difficult. I would say this, for someone playing only one or two tables, the motion of the game I think would be much more enjoyable than other sites.

Here are my opening stats:

Hands Needed: 120,000
Hands Played: 377
Hands Left: 119,623

Projected Hours to complete: 350.00
Hours Played: 1.5

Winnings/Losings: 2/4 + 42.00 1/2 + 106.00
Total: + 148.00

[Eder]

Think it was cool of TP to offer this deal...I will come whore your site some this weekend and check it out.

[pokerstudAA]

[ QUOTE ]
Truepoker is interested in getting and keeping business from what are new markets for us.

[/ QUOTE ]


I am sure that you know the high volume player market is right here in front of you. There are many people on these boards playing 20-30k hands a month and generate large amounts of rake for whatever poker site they are playing. Currently Party is buring bridges with the high volume players and many are considering moving.

The only problem with migrating to a new site is that you need new player to keep coming through the door or the high volume player will start leaving...no matter what kind of bonuses/special offers you have for the high volume players.

[Bob L]

I must say thats a great idea by true poker.120 k hands sounds like alot but I'm sure there are alot of posters who do that already at party.I only play 3-4 tables and easily play 1000-1500 a day.I wonder what kind of response true poker would get if they offered 10 k a month in rakeback to those players who play 120 k hands a month.My guess is that alot of players would switch from party and play on true to get that opportunity.If true did allow the 8 table multi capability and you had the option to get rid of the characters and the 3d crap and just had names like the other sites-I too would probably give it a shot.In fact I'm sure if they offered some plan like if you played 100 k you get 8k etc that alot of players would switch.There is alot of HIGH volume players at this forum and in my mind a drastic move like this would steal a awful alot of customers from party.

[hogua]

I think it's great that you are here to help you better understand your customer base (or at least a segment of it anyway).

I have often wondered why sites don't do more to support multi table players. From a site's point of view, it seems like multitablers could/should play a key role in a sites developement and growth.

The first thing a poker site needs in order to be successful is a decent number games. Without games, the site can't generate revenue. Multitablers can play a huge role in creating/sustaining games.

The incredible traffic growth that GameGrid experienced recently was due in a very large part to multitablers who were attacted to the site by a generous VFP and the ability to play several games at once.

If someone is going to play 16-20 games at a time, why wouldn't you want all of those games to be on your site? By limiting the number of tables a player can play at, you run the risk of giving marketshare to your competitors. On the other hand, if you allow/support/cater to multitablers you can gain marketshare from them.

just my 2 cents...

[Stupendous_Man]

This is pretty cool. Best of luck!

[Frequitude]

Wow, TruePoker is cool. I played there way back in my play money days (ok, 2 years ago for me). And TruePokerCEO, you're a good man, doing a good job.

A question: What if a startup site, or any established one for that matter, offered something similar out to the public for 2006? "Play 100k-150k hands and earn a WSOP entry", with a well marketed campaign (commercials during the 2005 WSOP maybe?) could attract many. That would appeal to any current player, and any John Doe who's never played, but sees the WSOP on TV and dreams. IF you could play 0.50-1.00, the fish pond base would be well stocked, no?

Mind you, I'm sure the WSOP organizers might not like this. That thing can't get TOO big.

But, would this work?


---and best of luck Odoyle, it looks like you're off to a good start---

[O Doyle Rules]

[/ QUOTE ]
I've wondered the same thing about the number of games available there.

O Doyle Rules, if there is a shortage of games, please put the word out here and I'm sure you'll find plenty of 2+2ers willing to jump in and prop up some games for you. I'll be there, for sure.

Good luck!

[/ QUOTE ]

The games won't have to be propped up, but I will probably need to be physically propped up after I complete this challenge.

Hey thanks to all the well wishers out there! I appreciate it!

[PokerSlut]

I have two words for you: Dual Monitors


Also I'd point out that you are looking at closer to 475 hours of play at your current pace, so you really do need to up the number of concurrent tables if you want any chance of making your goal. However, if you can maintain 8 tables at 50 hands/table/hour, you should only need 300 hours of play.

Good luck!

[Tapin]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd imagine you'd have to play something like 4 hours a day

[/ QUOTE ]

By my math (~55 days, 350 hours), it's closer to 6:20ish daily. But that doesn't taken into account the weekend factor. (Back-of-the-envelope math to follow...)

If he's going to do most of it on weekends, he's got 16 Sat/Suns between now and then.

Ten hours a day on each one would knock him down to only 190 hours to tackle on the remaining 39 days, or ~5 hours daily.

If he can manage twenty-five hours per weekend (if I played twenty-five hours of online poker in one weekend, I don't think I'd be able to see straight), he'll be down to ~4 hours daily.

He could get all the way down to only 2.5 hours daily during the week (when I'm "in the mood" for poker, this is about what I'll play, given that I too have a day job) if he's willing to do 16 hours a day on Saturdays and Sundays.

However I slice it, I know I couldn't do it. Best of luck to you, O Doyle! Where should we be drop-shipping the Visine?

[O Doyle Rules]

[ QUOTE ]
I have two words for you: Dual Monitors


Also I'd point out that you are looking at closer to 475 hours of play at your current pace, so you really do need to up the number of concurrent tables if you want any chance of making your goal. However, if you can maintain 8 tables at 50 hands/table/hour, you should only need 300 hours of play.

Good luck!

[/ QUOTE ]

I already have the dual monitor set-up so that is not a issue.

Slow start, fast finish! As I stated in my update, I was only 5-tabling due to the huge difference in appearance was throwing me out of my usual "zone". I am confident this will change as soon as I adapt. (Plus just got back home with cheapo reading glasses which should help the cause.)

[O Doyle Rules]

[/ QUOTE ]


If he's going to do most of it on weekends, he's got 16 Sat/Suns between now and then.

Ten hours a day on each one would knock him down to only 190 hours to tackle on the remaining 39 days, or ~5 hours daily.

If he can manage twenty-five hours per weekend (if I played twenty-five hours of online poker in one weekend, I don't think I'd be able to see straight), he'll be down to ~4 hours daily.

He could get all the way down to only 2.5 hours daily during the week (when I'm "in the mood" for poker, this is about what I'll play, given that I too have a day job) if he's willing to do 16 hours a day on Saturdays and Sundays.

However I slice it, I know I couldn't do it. Best of luck to you, O Doyle! Where should we be drop-shipping the Visine?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is pretty much my plan. (actually I have no choice, I have to burn it up on the weekend.)

[SinSixer]

I dont think 100k hands of 1/2 would generate nearly enough rake to justify a 10k buy in + expenses. Im fairly sure it wouldnt. Also 100k hands a month is some serious gaming. If you are pulling this down and only playing 1/2 something is wrong.

I may be in the minority here, but if I played 100k hands for a promo like this, I would rather have the option to take the $12,000 in cash instead of a buy-in to a 4,000 player tournament.

[Bob L]

4000 player tournament?-Ive heard it will be closer to 6000 players in the wsop main event this year.

[beernutz]

Interpolating from your first play, you got about 50 hands/hour when 5-tabling, so I calculate a total of 480 hours to do the whole 120,000 hands unless you bump up the number of tables.

Of course if you keep that win rate up you be able to pay your WSOP entry fee and expenses yourself with the profit.
[ QUOTE ]
Okay, I won't be making daily updates, probably more like weekly updates, but I thought I would share some of my experiences with my first shot at this.

I started playing shortly after I made this post last night and got in only about 1.5 hours of play. The graphics at TruePoker are very good except for the far end of the table where it is difficult for me to tell if players have cards in play or not, and especially with having my screen resolution set to 1600 x 1200. A trip to the local pharmacy will be made to pick me up some cheap reading glasses. (Which I have to admit that I need anyway.)

I can play any limit, so initially I have decided to play mostly 1/2 and 2/4 to get my feet wet. I was opening up one table at a time, and after I got the fifth table open, it started to become difficult for me, so I just stuck with keeping 5 open. I think part of the reason multi-tabling at True could be slightly more difficult than say at party is because of the 3D effect and the movement of the players in the games. That is the players pushing their chips into the pot, tapping the table to indicate a check and when a player folds. I think this did throw me off a little, just out of the usual 8 table mode I would be in. I am hoping as I adjust to the distraction of the motion, that I can add more tables. Otherwise, this challenge could become very difficult. I would say this, for someone playing only one or two tables, the motion of the game I think would be much more enjoyable than other sites.

Here are my opening stats:

Hands Needed: 120,000
Hands Played: 377
Hands Left: 119,623

Projected Hours to complete: 350.00
Hours Played: 1.5

Winnings/Losings: 2/4 + 42.00 1/2 + 106.00
Total: + 148.00

[/ QUOTE ]

[TomBrooks]

[ QUOTE ]
4000 player tournament?-Ive heard it will be closer to 6000 players in the wsop main event this year.

[/ QUOTE ]
If it's 5000, that would be $50,000,000 million in prize money at $10k per head. Wow. That is going to attract a lot of attention. Maybe it will go on network TV.

[TomBrooks]

[ QUOTE ]
Here are my opening stats: Hours Played:1.5 Winnings/Losings: 2/4 + 42.00 1/2 + 106.00

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, if you can keep that up O'Doyle, you'll have about $50 Gs to take with you on the trip. Good luck in this venture.

PS: Some one doing this should have an avatar. Could someone set this man up with an avatar?

[SinSixer]

If you understand the mans name you should understand the avatar:

http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/212368/2/banana_peel_in_the_road_2.jpg

[SmileyEH]

Very cool doyle. Good luck!

-SmileyEH

[O Doyle Rules]

[/ QUOTE ]
PS: Some one doing this should have an avatar. Could someone set this man up with an avatar?

[/ QUOTE ]

I am open for suggestions and help on how to do it.

(Not a fan of the one Sinsixer proposed, but understand)

Another footnote, just logged on to True and the games are slim pickings on weekend mornings, just 5 games to chose from. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[alabubba]

ya i'm there trying to get a seat, don't have a lot of time to stay but would play a ring or two with you if i get to sit down

[alabubba]

Played a few hands, nice site but is there anyway to use pokertracker with it? Good luck with your mega-adventure!

[Mike Haven]

http://www.houstonbands.net/odoylelogo.jpg

[Mike Haven]

Please use your "Location" to keep us updated on how many hands you've played.

Great idea, and good luck to you!

[greg nice]

how about some props to True Poker.. glad to see things like this

[O Doyle Rules]

Hey All,

Just a quick update played 4 hours this afternoon, 1478 hands, 369 per hour. That's more like it! I think I have started to adjust to True's graphics.

I took Mike Haven's suggestion and I am now displaying my current hand total under my name in the "location" spot.

Still looking for some other avatar suggestions.

OK. Enough of a break. I have to get back to the tables.

[MicroBob]

Yeah...enough of these breaks.

Get back to work!!!


Look forward to seeing you there.
Of course, you won't be able to see me because you'll have blind from all that internet play.

[O Doyle Rules]

Congrats to you Bob on your win! That had to be a thrill.

I guess some of us have do things the hard way and some take the easy way out.

(Oh wait, that was you that did the mini-marathon to win a party seat?)

Congrats again and see you at that final table!