"Official" Live at the Bike thread (5/5)

[Kevmath]

Tonight's show (as announced last night) is scheduled to be the 300min/500max buyin NL game. They first aired this a couple of weeks ago, and it was playing relatively tight, like a 200 game as Bart had mentioned. Next Thursday should be the return of the 5k 1 table shootout which would include Jerry Buss, surely fresh off of rehiring Phil Jackson to the Lakers.

Kevin...

[poker327]

I read in a news article today that Jerry Buss is going on vacation soon to Europe, so we may not see him for awhile.

[Russ McGinley]

Wow, almost right on time.

Kashie, remember you still owe me one thousand US dollars.

[Kevmath]

Hmm, a just started 200 min/max game, but it's got Bart Hanson, so it may be worth watching.

Kevin...

[Russ McGinley]

It will only be interesting if Bart plays more than his standard zero hands.

Looks like I was right about last night's "WTF is Tuchman doing raising with 63o" debacle.

[Vincent Lepore]

[ QUOTE ]
Kashie, remember you still owe me one thousand US dollars.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is that what you charged him to put "it" in your mouth? I've seen your mouth. It's not worth it!

Vince

[Russ McGinley]

This would be slightly funny if you didn't just try and steal my awesomely funny joke. Also I didn't read your little PM, sorry. Good effort, though!

[Jive Dadson]

Hello everybody.

... and please turn up the table mic.

[Kevmath]

Vince said something? It's sure nice to have that ignore feature.

Kevin...

[Russ McGinley]

[ QUOTE ]
Vince said something?

Kevin...

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really.

[Vincent Lepore]

[ QUOTE ]
Vince said something?


[/ QUOTE ]

The truth hurts, huh?

Vince

[Jive Dadson]

Don't EVER call a woman who's gesticulating like that. Fold meekly.

[Jive Dadson]

Again tonight, I can't hear the players. There's no bum to interview, and the players are talking. I sure would like to be able to hear the game as well as see it.

But that's just me.

[Russ McGinley]

Properly putting your cards over the window > rocket science + brain surgery

[Jive Dadson]

Is that our Bart in seat 7?

[Russ McGinley]

Yes it is.

Nice play by seat 2. "I'm beat, so I'll go all-in."

[Jive Dadson]

Apparently the announcers can hear the players.

[Kevmath]

[ QUOTE ]
Is that our Bart in seat 7?

[/ QUOTE ]

It is, but you weren't listening I guess.

Kevin...

[Jive Dadson]

We can't listen to Bart, as you suggest, BECAUSE THE TABLE MIC IS TOO LOW.

[Russ McGinley]

Not only that, but they went like this:

"Lets hear Bart."

"Yes, he likes to do this."

"I think..." blah blah blah while Bart is talking.

[Jive Dadson]

Mr. Hanson, please report to the announcers' booth. Mr. Hanson, please report to the announcers' booth.

[Kevmath]

[ QUOTE ]
Mr. Hanson, please report to the announcers' booth. Mr. Hanson, please report to the announcers' booth.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP, and yes I'll have to agree that the table mic has to be turned up a little bit.

Kevin...

[Russ McGinley]

I wouldn't mind if the other Mr. Hansen made an appearance at this table.

[Kashie]

Hello all!

My its a quiet table tonight , even with Bart.

[Jive Dadson]

[ QUOTE ]
Hello all!
My its a quiet table tonight , even with Bart.

[/ QUOTE ]

They're talking. The table mic is too low.

[Russ McGinley]

It sounds like the table mic is actually at a reasonable volume, but the announcer mics seem loud and these two never shut up so its hard to hear. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Jive Dadson]

Is Bart coming into the booth after the break?

[Kevmath]

Unfortunately, you can here the mariachi band. Happy Five Mayos day everyone!

Kevin...

[Russ McGinley]

Alright! The first bad suckout of the night, nearly an hour into it. Luckily there wasn't much money involved.

[Russ McGinley]

Jive, I *KNOW* you are finding this entire discussion about shutting up and listening incredibly ironic.

[Jive Dadson]

"Unless you know exactly what you are really saying, sometimes you should just shut up."

Hear, hear!

"Shut up and listen to the table."

Ditto, ditto!

[Jive Dadson]

[ QUOTE ]
Jive, I *KNOW* you are finding this entire discussion about shutting up and listening incredibly ironic.

[/ QUOTE ]

"Ironic" is a beautiful word, but not applicable here. It means, "with feined ignorance."

[Russ McGinley]

Bart is tonight's Pimpmack.

[goodFlop]

BTW, how old (young) is Shirley Rosario? I must say, she's got an awfully cute voice .. yum yum (no disrespect: and she knows how to work her image to her advantage too)

[Russ McGinley]

I'll be there tomorrow if you pay for my plane ticket from Florida, Shirley!

[Kevmath]

You can take a look at her on her website, www.poker-babes.com (http://www.poker-babes.com) and guess for yourself.

Kevin...

[Kevmath]

I don't think there's a problem with the commentary, it just seems people want to hear more of the players, and less of the commentators, at certain times (along with the obligatory turn up the table mic comment). Imagine if Denny was commentating, we'd get a chuckle every time he makes a along with reading announcments every 3 comments. Be happy with what we've got people.

Kevin...

[Jive Dadson]

I will probably be in So. Cal. in a few weeks. I would feel uncomfortable taking them up on the offer though. I suspect she is just PO'd at our suggestions, and the implication is that we don't know how hard the job is. I DO know how hard it is. I was in commercial radio (mostly in Austin, Texas) for over six years fulltime. Once I had to fill in for a basketball announcer. Yikes! That was sure not easy.

While I was typing that, I heard Dave's comment about turning the sound off. How would that help me hear what the players were saying?

[Kevmath]

It seems they've misinterpreted your comments as being directed towards them, when you really care to listen more to what the table's saying.

Kevin...

[Russ McGinley]

Shh, I'm trying to get a free ticket to California, here!

I too am not saying that their job is easy. But, as you and Kevin said, it'd be nice to hear from the table occasionally when something is happening. They can talk all they want when the table is full of corpses or when nothing is happening.

And yeah, turning the volume down impedes our hearing the table talk just a bit.

[gojacketz]

Just who in the Hell was this Cinco De Mayo guy anyway? Did he discover Mexico or something?

Gojacketz

[Russ McGinley]

Mayonnaise.

[Jive Dadson]

[ QUOTE ]
Shh, I'm trying to get a free ticket to California, here!

[/ QUOTE ]

It's been raining in No. Cal for months.

Checking my appt. book, it turns out I won't be in So. Cal next week after all - not unless they move Santa Rosa.

[Kevmath]

By the way Tuch, last week's schedule is still up. Also, the email address wasn't working last night when Ellix was guesting, unless it got fixed overnight. Maybe Isaac should doublecheck the table mic while we're at it.

Kevin...

[gojacketz]

He was the guy from Officer and a Gentlemen? Why do they celebrate that guy's birthday?

Gojacketz

[Russ McGinley]

Because he's great in CSI: Miami.

[Kevmath]

Is this the slowest 90 minutes in recorded history?

Kevin...

[Jive Dadson]

I think I heard someone at the table say "TwoPlusTwo."

[Russ McGinley]

I wonder who (glares at Bart).

[gojacketz]

Haha, is he playing out of the rack?

Gojacketz

[Russ McGinley]

Did you happen to see the dealer earlier tell Bart to get a move on? When the dealer calls the clock on you, you got issues.

[Gydyon]

Not only is he playing from a rack, he just bet his rack. Tremendous!

[Russ McGinley]

[ QUOTE ]
Not only is he playing from a rack, he just bet his rack. Tremendous!

[/ QUOTE ]

Bart is such a rookie. With time, I believe he can be the best.

[gojacketz]

This game is fixed.

Gojacketz

[Russ McGinley]

The proper phrase is "L@TB IS RIGGED!!!!1111"

Ok, now I heard Bart say twoplustwo. Bart, stop it.

[gojacketz]

I stand corrected...

Gojacketz

[DeepFriedHef]

I'd like to go ahead and compliment Shirley and Dave on their ability to make quality instructive poker commentary for 4 straight hours minus a half hour break on multiple nights per week. It's an ability I certainly admire.

I believe I speak for the majority of Live at the Bike viewers and probably the majority of 2+2 lurkers, but definitely not the majority of 2+2 posters.

If you compare them to other poker announcers, I think they rank among the top. And they don't even have the advantage of after-the-fact editing.

Official National Poker Commentator Rankings:
(based on instructiveness, not entertainment)
1. Howard Lederer
2. Mark Gregorich
3. Michael Konik
4. Bart Hanson
5. Shirley Rosario
6. Dave Tuchman
7. Mike Sexton
8. Vince van Patten
9. Norman Chad
10. Denny Williams

[Gydyon]

I have to seriously disagree with your placement of Konik, but otherwise a good list. The whole PSI 2 thing is souring me on him.

[Russ McGinley]

This is an official list?

I'd put Konik further down, actually. He stinks.

[gojacketz]

Cassandra has a very good fake laugh.

Gojacketz

[Jive Dadson]

Go for it, Dave. Set youself down in the game.

[ambyrx]

Bart seems lucky--does he have any tips on the derby?

[gojacketz]

"L@TB IS RIGGED!!!!1111"

[Russ McGinley]

Tuch is like The Cooler. Every time he says that he wouldn't play a hand that somebody on the table would play, that player wins.

[Kevmath]

[ QUOTE ]
This is an official list?

I'd put Konik further down, actually. He stinks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Konik's been drafting off of Lederer, that's what makes people think he's good.

Kevin...

[Jive Dadson]

Suck job of the night. All in with two outs.

And he proudly announces, "Full house!" He should be saying, "Sorry old bean, you outplayed me and I sucked out like the donk I am."

[Russ McGinley]

Yay! Shirley is in love with me again! :kisses:

[Photoc]

Why did the dealer just run the 9 seat's chips down. You dont touch the money until you run the cards out. The reasoning is that if the bigger stack wins, you dont waste the time.

[PGarlic]

Just chimed in, the first hand I see seat 6 turns a strait flush.

[Jive Dadson]

Welcome back Bart (you luck bucket).

When Dave gets back, kick him out of the booth and make him sit in the game.

[Russ McGinley]

Wow.

Wow.

What a horrible horrible play on the river by seat 5. BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD.

[PGarlic]

After a min raise that screams "flush" on the turn, If I river the nuts i'm gonna make my opponent pay.

[Jive Dadson]

Back in the day, when I played no limit draw poker daily, the size of my bets and raises did not vary depending on my hand, never, not one dollar. All that mattered was the size of pot, number of players, etc. - in other words, info that was already available to my opponents. I would bet the same amount with a straight flush, pure bluff, or anything in between. I firmly believe that's the way to go.

[7n7]

I just tuned in to the conversation and the broadcast. Could someone please recount what happened in the hand that seat 5 played so badly?

[That guy]

whoa, MORE MARIA! (the saucy cocktail waitress)

[Russ McGinley]

I missed the preflop and flop action but here's what happened:

Seat 9, with Jh6h, turned a flush against seat 5, who had AhKc, and had flopped top two. She bet, he min-raised, and she flat called. River was another ace, giving her a full house, and she checked, and he checked right behind.

[Russ McGinley]

Nice reaction time, Tuch.

"I might call and see the turn."

"..."

"Anyway, queen-seven-deuce on the flop."

"OH YEAH!"

Lay off the weed, Tuch.

[BISCO]

what kind of chips/blinds are they playing this game with...i was under the assumption that yellow chips were $2 everywhere?

is there a huge list of players that want to get on this in the casino every night?

i cant belive how little the woman in the 5 seat is winning by chasing action away every time she makes these monster hands

[Kevmath]

It's nights like this where I wish the show was 3 hours long.

Kevin...

[Russ McGinley]

It was much more interesting having those pseudo-arguments with Shirley and making her mad at us. I think Bart has mentioned 2+2 more when he was playing tonight as opposed to announcing.

[Russ McGinley]

This game continues to prove that peddling the nuts is all you need to do to be a consistent winner in this game. Unless you are George who gets all of his big premium pairs cracked.

[Jive Dadson]

Notice the "I go all in with my nut hand, but I'm not really interested because I look away and then pick up my drink" move.

[BISCO]

why dont they have any kind of blank symbol to put on the screen when someone isnt showing their cards...seat one has done it a handful of times since his pocket kings got beat by pocket aces

[Russ McGinley]

I haven't seen seat 5 bet/lead with a strong hand tonight. She ALWAYS bets/leads out with a draw/weak hand and ALWAYS check-raises the flop with a strong hand.

[Jive Dadson]

I almost think I could play in some of these games without looking at my hole cards.

[cold_cash]

Easiest river fold ever of AA.

Won a few Sklansky bucks though.

[That guy]

just a nit -- tight grizzly would have paid off without a 4TH heart on river.

[Russ McGinley]

[ QUOTE ]
I almost think I could play in some of these games without looking at my hole cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

Common things I see:

1. Small bets represent strength
2. Medium size bets represent weakness
3. There is maybe one bluff per hour of broadcast
4. Everyone slowplays made hands on the flop
5. There are several common physical tells (sitting back in the chair, drinking, talking)

Anything I'm missing? Seriously, I'd be more scared of checks in this game than I would bets.

[That guy]

just a nit -- tight grizzly would have paid off without a 4TH heart on river.

which brings up the good point that you can often lose your customers if a scare card hits (assume you already have a made hand and scare card didn't help you either, ie.. set)

[Jive Dadson]

So he got the $40 call. Big whoop. He can miss some calls of a $200 bet and come out way ahead.

[aeakos]

Who is seat 3? He seems to play 22ish(read:solid.)

[BartHanson]

Hello everyone. I'm glad I got to chance play tonight's 200NL game. I am $900 richer for two hours. Anyway, i got my fair share of hands and definitely had my fair share of luck. Like Dave and I always say staright forward play in restricted buy in NL games is usually the best strategy. I wanted to address a hand that was played once i got into the commentator booth.

$200 NL max buy in game. 3-5 blinds.

S9= at least $500
S5= at least $450

S9 Jh 6h
S5 Ah Ks

S9 in mid position, S5 in one of the blinds.

5 or 6 limpers in unraised pot.

Flop: Ac Kh 4h

Checked around on flop.

Turn: ?h

S5 bets 40, S9 raises to 80, S5 calls. Everyone folds.

River: As.

S5 checks S9 checks behind. S5 wins with Aces full of kings. I might have slightly misrepresented some of the cards but I think that everyone can get the point. Any comments on how the hand was played?

Any comments on any of the hands that i was involved with during my play time?

Please join us for our unrestriced 500 min buy in NL game tomorrow at 6PM Pacific time.

[Rocaix]

[ QUOTE ]

$200 NL max buy in game. 3-5 blinds.


[/ QUOTE ]

Misplayed on just about every street by S5.

Preflop: too much equity in this pot not to raise and drive out limpers.

Flop: checking here seems pretty bad, maybe S5 was hoping someone would take a shot at it and then she could get a check-raise in. Although with 6 players, there's a fairly good probability one of them's got the /images/graemlins/heart.gif draw.

Turn: considering this is an 6-handed unraised pot and S5 is very straightfoward tight, her leading out is almost certainly a big made hand. S9 knows this and mini-raises and she flat calls. S9 is representing a set, AK/A4 with A /images/graemlins/heart.gif, or the nut flush here, by calling the mini-raise which represents huge strength in an unraised pot.

River: S5 checking here is obviously a big mistake, as the non-nut flush here probably checks behind but might call avalue bet. S9 made a good play in that he recognized that there's nothing that S5 would call a river bet with there that he could beat. If S5 had a set/two pair, the boat got there on the river either that or he was already losing to a higher flush.

[Russ McGinley]

This is one of the shows I'd like to watch from the archives because it has a couple of players who know what they're doing (you and Grizzly Adams) and it has several players who have obvious tendencies that can be taken advantage of. Cassandra in seat 5 had the most obvious tendencies but it seemed like most of the players had slowplayitis and wanted to entice action by checking/betting 1-2x BB in the hopes of appearing weak. For example, the guy who turned a straight flush bet $5 on the turn and suckered another player with ace-high to play. Seems like everyone plays the same way. On the flop, the small bets are generally indicative of a very strong hand and the player is looking to get at least a little action, while the medium bets ($20-$30) are generally weak bets and the player is trying to get everyone out. Any check-raises are almost 100% guaranteed of a strong hand and I saw several check-raises on flop bets of $15, which are usually exploratory bets and when faced with the raise, the bettor just folds.

It was funny when you said that the players looked at you like you had three heads on the ATo, T-T-8 flop hand because all these players thought "Wow, trips and you bet??!?!" Unfortunately for you, on that hand, nobody had a pair or a draw, but I guarantee any 8 would have called, QJ, J9, flush draw (if there was one, don't remember), 76, probably even a hand like J7, and maybe even ace-high would have called because these players think "He's betting right out, he must have nothing!" It's a case of knowing your opponent, and you and Tuch talked about it more in detail about how Grizzly Adams was continually getting paid off as obviously nobody on the table was paying attention that he was only playing big pocket pairs and big aces.

As far as the way you played, I think you played just fine. I'd like to hear your thoughts about the hand in which you limped UTG with AKo and eventually it was a three-way flop with two AQ hands with the case ace on the board.

The AK v J6s hand was redonkulous. That's about as badly as you can play AK, IMO. She never made a bet with the best hand. Flops top two and tries to check raise and fails. Allows a weak hand to catch up and decides to bet when she's behind. A min-raise and she still had redraws to the nut flush or a full house and she calls. She rivers an ace and has the stone cold nuts and tries a check-raise AGAIN! I give it up to seat 9 who checked behind, fearing a full house or maybe a higher flush. I probably would have bet as you said you would have, but I think in this case, a thinking player would bet the river with a flush, while an amateur-ish player probably fears monsters and is okay with just checking it down. Really, there was little reason for seat 9 to fear a full house. However, if Cassandra really thought that seat 9 had a strong hand, why not lead on the river? She is almost certainly going to get paid off and he might even raise. She was just too hell bent on trying for check-raises and slowplaying.

After tonight, I might sign up for the archives just to replay nights like this where there are a couple of strong players cleaning up and a bunch of bad players struggling and giving off huge signals about their hands.

[BartHanson]

Hey Russ,

Thanks for the kind words. You know you r one of my favorites on 2+2/images/graemlins/cool.gif Let me run that AK hand back so people r familiar with it. I (S7) limped with AKos UTG. I believe that fatboy to my immediate left raised to 20. Fellow in S1 called, S2 called and I called.

FLOP: 7s As 5h--or something like that.

I have about $200 and lead for $75. Fatboy folds. S1 calls and has me well covered. S2 moves all in for about $105 total. I move all in S1 mucks--shows Ad Qd-- and S2 turns over AQ. Turn Blank, River Blank.

Obviously in a game with deeper stacks this hand would have played out differently. The funny thing is I thought that S2 was 50/50 to have a better hand than me since he was saying "I need help I need help". What I was really worried about was S1's overcall. I thought he might have a flush draw or was slowplaying a monster. If I had had $1000 and he had me covered I might have mucked this hand. At the point that we were at in the game, however, I only had about $125 left and thought it was right to move all in. The funny thing is that Shirley Rosario was telling me that there was a possibility that a technical mistake was made in this hand. If my figures were correct regarding the bet sizes I should not have had the option to reraise. S2's raise has to be more than 50% of my bet and I believe that his all in was slightly under this number (A reraise of only $30).

Anyway, a tough hand if the stacks were deep and I would like to know people's opinions about the play if both I and S1 had had at least $500+.

On another note and I apologize for misplacing this question, did the NBC affiliate out of LA not air the National heads up championship on Saturday morning? I had set up my TIVO to record it and it picked up some local news special. I am watching the rerun that I TIVOed on CNBC right now. Again, I am not privy to strict forum etiquette and if someone can point to the right area were I could post this question I would greatly appreciate it.

Bart

[Russ McGinley]

[ QUOTE ]
What I was really worried about was S1's overcall.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's kinda what it looked like. It looked as though for a moment you were going to fold (you checked back at your hand, presumably to see if you had a backdoor flush redraw?) and I was worried you'd muck. It's entirely possible that seat 2 thought he had the best hand, and his "I guess I'm beat" shtick was just to entire a call by a weaker ace. (Fatboy had KJs in that hand btw)

In a deeper game, if I bet $75 and get reraised another $400-500 or more, I'd almost certainly throw the hand away too. If someone is willing to put that much money in the pot with AQ, I can find a better spot to pick him off.

You are in the right forum for your question about the HUPC, but if you are really interested you'd probably be best to start a new thread.

[Kevmath]

[ QUOTE ]
On another note and I apologize for misplacing this question, did the NBC affiliate out of LA not air the National heads up championship on Saturday morning? I had set up my TIVO to record it and it picked up some local news special. I am watching the rerun that I TIVOed on CNBC right now.

Bart

[/ QUOTE ]

Bart,

It seems some stations usually run informercials in the 12 noon slot Sundays. However, it looks like CNBC will be re-airing shows every Thursday. On tvguide.com, they're listing they're reairing tomorrow's 90 minute show Thursday at 8pm (although they're also listing Dennis Miller at 9pm).

Kevin...