Big Gray Area For Me - Correct Raise?

[KramerTM]

This is at the 20+2 buy-in. The 25/50 blinds still seems to be a big gray area for me. Could use some input.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP1 (t1170)
MP2 (t1190)
CO (t575)
Button (t620)
SB (t1310)
BB (t1210)
UTG (t1210)
Hero (t715)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t155</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls t155, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>.

Flop: (t385) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets t150</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: t535

[David100]

i would fold pre flop.

I would also fold the flop.


David

[lutefisk]

I would perhaps consider this on the button, and would do it from the SB, but would fold it otherwise. Almost the whole table is left to go, and you're probably in trouble against anyone who calls. No need to take that risk for 75 chips. That's my thought anyway.

"Only after the 10th punch will you see the fist, and only after the 20th will you block it." --Proverb from the game of Go

[curtains]

Start folding this hand in this position and watch your ROI go up. (Move allin if you have about 400-550 though).

[treeofwisdom7]

holy crap i never thought about playing this hand this early.. if hero was in the same situation with AQo should he fold or raise with it? maybe i should raise

[curtains]

Folding AQ would be simply bad. Moving allin is stronger than folding, however I'd probably raise to 125-150.

[KramerTM]

What's the min hand you would play here then? AJo? Or is that still too loose? How about pocket 8s? 9s?

[zambonidrivr]

8's &amp; 9's are okay. AQ off is the min drawing hand for me. Check out Harrington on Holdem. It's probably the best I have read.

[hummusx]

[ QUOTE ]

Folding AQ would be simply bad. Moving allin is stronger than folding, however I'd probably raise to 125-150.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this tied to his stack size at all? If he had 150 less would this be a clear push? What about if he had 150 more? Still a raise?

At this level with this many people, I don't think I'm usually raising UTG+1 with AQo. Probably either folding or possibly limping depending on the table. This might be a leak...

In later position I'm raising, and as someone mentioned above I'd steal with ATo on the button in this situation.

[Mr. Glass]

I'd say you could justify moving all in or folding here considering your stack, but I'd lean towards moving in. If you just pot raise and are called, in my opinion you have to be prepared to move in on the flop no matter what hits. You've put over 20% of your stack in with the raise, so you have to follow through (which is why I'd just lean towards moving in pre flop).

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]
What's the min hand you would play here then? AJo? Or is that still too loose? How about pocket 8s? 9s?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would fold AJo here, but play AQ for a raise.

Middle pockets at this blind level are a big hole in my game, so I won't offer an opinion on how I would play them (since it would likely be wrong).

[hummusx]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd say you could justify moving all in or folding here considering your stack, but I'd lean towards moving in. If you just pot raise and are called, in my opinion you have to be prepared to move in on the flop no matter what hits. You've put over 20% of your stack in with the raise, so you have to follow through (which is why I'd just lean towards moving in pre flop).

[/ QUOTE ]

Why problem with this is that he isn't at a point where he needs to make a desparate move like this. He's got 14BBs, should he really be shoving a mediocre hand from middle position so he can pick up the blinds? If he were shorter stacked or the blinds were higher it might make more sense.

[snap]

[ QUOTE ]
I would perhaps consider this on the button, and would do it from the SB, but would fold it otherwise. Almost the whole table is left to go, and you're probably in trouble against anyone who calls. No need to take that risk for 75 chips. That's my thought anyway.

"Only after the 10th punch will you see the fist, and only after the 20th will you block it." --Proverb from the game of Go

[/ QUOTE ]

UTG+1 you have to fold this (trust me I have learned that hard way). I suppose you could limp and hope to catch a flop, but I would say fold on this level.

Fold the flop.

[Mr. Glass]

[ QUOTE ]
Why problem with this is that he isn't at a point where he needs to make a desparate move like this. He's got 14BBs, should he really be shoving a mediocre hand from middle position so he can pick up the blinds? If he were shorter stacked or the blinds were higher it might make more sense.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't disagree. I think a big factor for me would be how long until the blinds jump. One round at 25/50 is over 10% of your stack, which is very signiftcant, but more significantly, I don't want to let myself drop to 625 or so and then have the blinds jump to 50/100. If that happens, I'll have to make a steal no matter what my cards before I go through the blinds again. I don't want to put myself in that position. Of course, sometimes I'll run into a big hand and be dominated, but sometimes I'll be called by pocket 8's or even Ace-8. If I get called and double up here, I'm in great shape. If I go out, well, that's poker, and I move on to my next tourny.

[xPuns1her]

PUSH ALL-IN THE SECOND YOU GET YOUR ACE TEN OFFSUIT

HAHA

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What's the min hand you would play here then? AJo? Or is that still too loose? How about pocket 8s? 9s?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would fold AJo here, but play AQ for a raise.

Middle pockets at this blind level are a big hole in my game, so I won't offer an opinion on how I would play them (since it would likely be wrong).

[/ QUOTE ]

I would raise 99 for sure, I hate anything else (ie calling or folding) One rule I think is proper is don't call as the first one in when the blinds are 25-50. There may be rare exceptions, but I'm pretty sure I haven't done it in my last 1000 sit and go's. I would sometimes raise 88 and AJ but that would depend on some things (An intuitive feel of how tight the table is.).

Problem with these hands (AJ,88) is they usually aren't strong enough to stand a reraise here, so the only reason to have a decent hand here is so that if a shortstack raises you, you can call, and if someone calls you then you have a hand to see a flop with. If their only options were raise or fold, then you may as well just raise to 125-150 with 32o.

[treeofwisdom7]

[ QUOTE ]

Folding AQ would be simply bad. Moving allin is stronger than folding, however I'd probably raise to 125-150.

[/ QUOTE ]

wow from early postion when the blinds are small you suggest that we raise UTG-1 with AQ? should i raise with AQo underthe gun from now on?

[curtains]

I sure raise AQo there, and it works fine for me once its 25-50. Also you are second to act at a 8 handed table...much different than 2nd to act at a 10 handed table.

btw I usually don't raise in EP with AQo or AQs in the 10-15 or 15-30 round, assuming a normal stack.