Am I a donk?

[gh9801]

about the minraise preflop - I had been pushing/raising big the past few hands and I thought I'd change it up with the minraise. My main question is about the call - any good?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

BB (t1226)
UTG (t1908)
Hero (t3360)
SB (t1506)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t400</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB pushes, Hero calls t826.

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
I had been pushing/raising big the past few hands


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

Preflop: Hero is Button with 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.

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Hmmmm....

I think I'd very painfully tear myself away from this hot, hot hand and fold to start with.

I'd fold to his allin...

Yugoslav

[elonkra]

[ QUOTE ]
about the minraise preflop - I had been pushing/raising big the past few hands and I thought I'd change it up with the minraise. My main question is about the call - any good?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

BB (t1226)
UTG (t1908)
Hero (t3360)
SB (t1506)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t400</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB pushes, Hero calls t826.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless doubling up the shortstack and giving away a chiplead is a good poker strategy, you should fold.

[microbet]

Two possible reasons to throw in a minraise: you have a monster and you think someone will come over the top, or you think they will probably fold to the minraise anyway and you are willing to fold if they come over the top. That's in addition to any possible value in mixing it up.

You are getting 2:1 which makes this about right EV-wise, but not by a lot. If you show down 24 here, you will absolutely destroy any FE you have for the rest of the tourney. I'd say fold, let them think you are a pussy and then push if you get a pushable hands, but minraise next time you get a premium hand (may not happen again this tourney, but if it does, that's what I'd do, if I were in that spot, which I wouldn't have been in).

[elonkra]

[ QUOTE ]
Two possible reasons to throw in a minraise: you have a monster and you think someone will come over the top, or you think they will probably fold to the minraise anyway and you are willing to fold if they come over the top. That's in addition to any possible value in mixing it up.

You are getting 2:1 which makes this about right EV-wise, but not by a lot. If you show down 24 here, you will absolutely destroy any FE you have for the rest of the tourney. I'd say fold, let them think you are a pussy and then push if you get a pushable hands, but minraise next time you get a premium hand (may not happen again this tourney, but if it does, that's what I'd do, if I were in that spot, which I wouldn't have been in).

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Ok, I think one of us is confused. Are you saying a call would be the right move here, but for the loss of FE?

[gh9801]

Right, I threw in the minraise to make it seem like I had a monster.

I didn't think about folding equity, only pot odds. At the end of the tourney, people were calling me with pocket 33s with 5 overs on the board, so it helped my image a lot. Except I wasn't catching hands.

I think it was a donkish move despite the odds. I wouldn't do it again

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]

Ok, I think one of us is confused. Are you saying a call would be the right move here, but for the loss of FE?

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A call would be +CEV by a bit probably...but -$EV (but fairly close I guess) with 24s against some sorta likely range. Plus, calling kills your image (and min-raising and folding isn't hot for it either)...which is why it's very important the hero folds this given he's been pushing/raising big a lot recently.

Yugoslav

[gh9801]

It's a correct call mathematically, but it ruins image and takes away FE which is more important

[zaphod]

[ QUOTE ]
Two possible reasons to throw in a minraise: you have a monster and you think someone will come over the top, or you think they will probably fold to the minraise anyway and you are willing to fold if they come over the top. That's in addition to any possible value in mixing it up.

You are getting 2:1 which makes this about right EV-wise, but not by a lot. If you show down 24 here, you will absolutely destroy any FE you have for the rest of the tourney. I'd say fold, let them think you are a pussy and then push if you get a pushable hands, but minraise next time you get a premium hand (may not happen again this tourney, but if it does, that's what I'd do, if I were in that spot, which I wouldn't have been in).

[/ QUOTE ]

This makes sense to me. I usually stay away from the minraise anyway..
In this position i would have folded preflop since i had been pretty aggresive lately.

[Jman28]

[ QUOTE ]
I threw in the minraise to make it seem like I had a monster.


[/ QUOTE ]

Never overestimate the thought processes of your opponents. They will often try to put you on as bad a hand as they can convince themselves is reasonable. You just made them right.

-Jman28

[microbet]

Yugo pretty much answered for me. It depends on the range and I think both cEV and $EV will be very close for a call, after the minraise. Here, I don't think the possible tiny benefit would be worth it.

[elonkra]

[ QUOTE ]
A call would be +CEV by a bit probably...but -$EV
Yugoslav

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Damn I can't wait for citanul's FAQ to hit the presses. I've read about pot odds but still don't know what those symbols mean, other than the assumption that EV stands for expected value.

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
It's a correct call mathematically,


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Wtf does that mean?! If it's the case....call!

[ QUOTE ]

but it ruins image and takes away FE which is more important

[/ QUOTE ]

Which you frankly can take into account mathematically if you're so inclined...

Yugoslav
PS It *isn't* a correct call by any math I would use....*maybe* very slightly but only if you do everything you can to make the math support a call.

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
It's a correct call mathematically, but it ruins image and takes away FE which is more important

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not even sure its a correct call if played without anything but CEV in mind.

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
about the minraise preflop - I had been pushing/raising big the past few hands and I thought I'd change it up with the minraise. My main question is about the call - any good?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

BB (t1226)
UTG (t1908)
Hero (t3360)
SB (t1506)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t400</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB pushes, Hero calls t826.

[/ QUOTE ]

as someone who is a regular at this forum, but at the same time lurks on other forums, i pray to god that holla remains part of our vernacular and donk remains part of their vernacular....long live holla.

beefy