Bottom set out of the SB in unraised pot

[Ghazban]

BB is 17/5/1. MP3 is 37/5/2 and has been taking stabs at every flop checked to him last to act so I was going for the checkraise on the flop; normally I'd lead out here. Comments on all streets appreciated.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

UTG ($196.7)
UTG+1 ($206.8)
MP1 ($208.35)
MP2 ($204.75)
MP3 ($216.3)
CO ($275.75)
Button ($165.35)
<font color="#C00000">Hero ($194.75)</font>
<font color="#C00000">BB ($199.93)</font>

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. Hero posts a blind of $1.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, MP3 calls $2, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero (poster) completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($6) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, MP3 checks.

Turn: ($6) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $5</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $10</font>, MP3 folds, Hero calls $5.

River: ($26) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $15</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $50</font>, Hero calls $35.

Final Pot: $126

[TreyOfLight]

BB either minraised you with a set on a straightened board, or regular-raised you with a straight on a paired board. He smells like a bad player. When I smell bad player, I push.

[Ghazban]

[ QUOTE ]
BB either minraised you with a set on a straightened board, or regular-raised you with a straight on a paired board. He smells like a bad player. When I smell bad player, I push.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think pushing with the worst possible full house here is a good idea unless the opponent is so terrible that he can't lay down a straight. Furthermore, most opponents won't lay down any full boat here so you can't get an inferior boat to fold by pushing, either.

[spoohunter]

You mean superior boat right?

[Ghazban]

Oops, yes

[Ghazban]

I guess this wasn't an interesting hand after all. I believe I was incorrect in calling the raise on the river. At the time, I felt it was likely that BB made the straight on the turn so I value bet on the end an amount I thought he could call with that holding. The raise indicates he was not at all bothered by the board pairing and, in that case, he must have a boat himself which is (by necessity) larger than mine. He had 88 and took it down.

[TrailofTears]

Hey Ghaz. I understand your logic here, and it is very sound for a decent player. However, isn't it possible that villain could play JT or 9T like this, especially of diamonds. I see lots of players overplay their trips just like this. I guess this would be more likely with a read that villain overplays hands, but it was just a thought.

Also, what was the point of your river bet? Was it a value bet or a blocking bet? If it was the latter (or both), then you need to be disciplined enough to follow your read and fold to the large river raise.

Another point, I don't like the flop CR idea, even with your read. You won't get him to call your CR if he is just taking a stab, but you might get him to call drawing nearly dead with a lead bet. Your CR is just too strong here and will likely fold out a K that would otherwise stick around for the rest of the streets, making you more bets than if you CR his weak flop stab. Make sense?

-Trail

[Ghazban]

The river was intended to be a value bet and I called the raise reasoning at the time that he might have a bare ten or a straight he thought was still good (vs. my perceived trip tens). Honestly, I didn't think through it enough before clicking call but that was my gut first instinct.

Regarding the flop checkraise, I don't CR very often at all and think it is something I need to add to my arsenal. This looked like a good spot for it, particularly because it defines both players' hands very strongly. If I had gotten to do it in this hand and BB had called or raised, I'd have a much better idea of where he was at. If I lead, he could smooth call with a draw, two pair, trips, or a strong ace and I wouldn't know which he had.

[Brad F.]

[ QUOTE ]
BB is 17/5/1. MP3 is 37/5/2 and has been taking stabs at every flop checked to him last to act so I was going for the checkraise on the flop; normally I'd lead out here. Comments on all streets appreciated.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

UTG ($196.7)
UTG+1 ($206.8)
MP1 ($208.35)
MP2 ($204.75)
MP3 ($216.3)
CO ($275.75)
Button ($165.35)
<font color="#C00000">Hero ($194.75)</font>
<font color="#C00000">BB ($199.93)</font>

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. Hero posts a blind of $1.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, MP3 calls $2, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero (poster) completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($6) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, MP3 checks.

Turn: ($6) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $5</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $10</font>, MP3 folds, Hero calls $5.

River: ($26) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $15</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $50</font>, Hero calls $35.

Final Pot: $126

[/ QUOTE ]

The only part of the hand I don't like is not pushing the river. If a laggie like this happened to hit a better boat then so be it, but I'd say 4 of 5 times you beat his two pair or straight.

Brad

[TrailofTears]

[ QUOTE ]
Regarding the flop checkraise, I don't CR very often at all and think it is something I need to add to my arsenal. This looked like a good spot for it, particularly because it defines both players' hands very strongly. If I had gotten to do it in this hand and BB had called or raised, I'd have a much better idea of where he was at. If I lead, he could smooth call with a draw, two pair, trips, or a strong ace and I wouldn't know which he had.

[/ QUOTE ]

True, but I think the times you lose value from a naked A here outweigh not knowing where you stand. Also, what does his smooth call of your CR mean to you? Are you shutting down completely, because I think villain could make these same moves with Aces up and you still wouldn't know where you stand. In a cash game setting, I am assuming that my set is good unless the board gets very scary (which it isn't on this flop).

-Trail

[MLerra]

If you did catch a bet out of the MP3, I would not have made a check-raise. I'd just call, and bet the turn like I hit something there. You've got a set, and there's no flush draw possible, though you might fear a 9 giving someone a straight on the turn. Basically, I think you have nothing to fear from almost any turn card, and you give him a chance to make two pair or something if he was taking a stab with second or third pair on the flop.

Check-raises only work, from what I've seen, when they tick someone off and anger them into calling. The only time I've seen this done well is by one of my roommates, who is a female. She has the check-raise down to a science, because people naturally view her as weak (being the only girl at the table) and they think they can bully her out of a hand with a bet. Then she raises back at them, and they don't want to get bullied themself by a girl, so they call her there, and the rest of the way when she leads.

[Publos Nemesis]

I think you entirely misplayed this hand.

First, why do you think anyone would bet the flop? No one has shown any strong interest in the hand preflop, thus you have no reason to suspect a big ace that will bet the flop and play back at you when you c/r. The c/r is only a valuable play if you are up against a big A or two pair. Otherwise you will just fold out the other player right?

It is much better to bet out the flop. Given that you didn't, why would bet out the river after you got m/r on the turn? His m/r is screaming a better set, AT, or straight. On the river, you are only ahead of the straight. So check and call. This is a passive strategy, but you have to play it this way given that you didn't bet out the flop.