Lawsuit over English-only at the table

[Ulysses]

This guy is suing over the English-only rule (http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2002/11/21/BA164626.DTL) .

[Jimbo]

If he is Iranian (Persian) and wants to speak Farsi he can find several restaurants in the San Jose area to speak with his comrades. BTW, I recommend the chelo-k-bob and gourmeh sabzi, very tasty.

It's a good rule. we use it in our home games. Only english.
i hope we don't get sued.

[Boris]

ridiculous lawsuit.

But if I were a card room manager I would set up some tables where the players could speak whatever language they wanted. gambling is an entertainment industry so you have to try and give the customers what they want. The english only rule is kind of buzz kill for many players, especially at the lower limits. I could give a rat's ass if I was at 6-12 table with 8 other players speaking 3 different languages. Let'em gamble and party. For $3/round you should be able to have some fun.

[oddjob]

c'mon how much english do you need to learn?

call, raise, fold, ship it, f**k, and lousy dealer

[J.A.Sucker]

[Wingnut]

"[Segal] said federal law prohibits 'people going to public places (from being) discriminated against based on national origin . . . whether it's a restaurant or a cardroom or an airline.'"

Aren't California cardrooms (and cardrooms in general) just like Vegas casinos in that they are private clubs that can admit/bar anyone they want and propose rules as they see fit? I doubt the federal law actually singles out restaurants, cardrooms and airlines.

[Jimbo]

National origin is one thing but language is something entirely different. A good example is an airline, suppose I neither speak, read nor write English and I am asked the following question at DFW airport. Have your bags been out of your site since you packed them? I nod yes! Then, has anyone unfamiliar to you had access to your baggage? I again nod yes and smile! Finally, do you have reason to suspect there is an explosive device in your baggage? Nodding yes again I am still smiling as security hauls me away to be legally tortued and confined without legal counsel until my execution!

My point being sometimes discrimination is for my own good and is perfectly legal.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Let's see. They're not comfortable with English, but they are comfortable with our judicial system.

I think the cardrooms win this easy.

as an attorney i would love to defend all of these card rooms and have them pay me a big fat retainer that would make up for the horrendous rake i have paid for years. the rule about speaking english at the table has nothing to do with discrimination it only has to do with preventing collusion and other forms of cheating. what a joke. this guy has no chance i think he should have to pay attorneys fees and costs. the lawsuit is about as frivolous as the girls in newyork suing because they became fat pigs from eating mcdonalds.

[AlanBostick]

I have always been of two minds about the"English Only" rule.

The concern about collusion is a real one, and it should not be neglected. But in the actual practice of enforcement, the rule turns out to be more of a club with which to beat up on non-English-speakers. It seems to me that there is more than a little covert racism in how the rule typically is applied.

Personally, I've deliberately given up on making an issue of the language people speak at the poker table. I've never observed people talking in other languages to improper purpose. It's kind of like the "I want to see that hand" rule -- there are good reasons for it to be there, but out of 1000 times a complaint is made about breaking the rule, 999 times it is completely innocent.

Lucky Chances, one of the cardrooms named in the suit, is owned by Filipinos and has a substantial Filipino player base. I personally think it would be completely fair and appropriate for Lucky Chances management to implement a "Tagalog Only" rule. I'd even keep playing there, after learning some key Tagalog words such as the ones for "call," "raise," "fold," and "nice hand."

I played Poker in Olongopo P.I. The only language spoken was Tagalag. Needless to say I lost but I enjoyed the San Miguel, theBalooks and the Monkey meat on a stick.

Send the F&^%$# back to Iran to ante up.

[mikelow]

Good points. I think a better idea is to get cell phones off the table.

[Rainbow Warrior]

What's your name and address?

6-12 may be low stakes for you...but it's decent stakes for a beginner. And half the fun at the lower limits is the comraderie at the table.

Maybe if they had one table for vietnamese, one for farsi, one for spanish, etc....

[youtalkfunny]

Or do you just find them annoying?

I won't disagree with "annoying", but if we barred all annoying behaviour, there would be no one left to play against!

Unless there's a railbird standing behind you, and HE'S on a cell phone, I don't think they're that much of a threat. Unless the player says into his phone, "He just re-raised. Now what should I do?"

Bobby

[andyfox]

I thought the rule, at least where I play, is English only during the play of the hand. After the hand is over, and before the next hand is dealt, you can speak any language you like.

[HDPM]

Yeah, and that's why the lawsuit is going nowhere, even in the far far left state of California. /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

[Bob T.]

More than preventing collusion, I think the English only rule is to ensure that only one player is playing each hand. If a sweater is standing behind a player, and they are discussing something in a language that the dealers and other players don't understand, then how does anyone know that they aren't discussing the play of this hand.

Good Luck,
Play Well,

Bob T.

The English only rule isn't enforced nearly as well as it should be. Players are always coming up behind their friends and talking in a foreign language even during the play of the hand. I think the rule should be English only at ALL TIMES. For one thing it's just plain rude to be blithely squaking away in a foreign tongue. As far as the lawsuit goes this guy should be countersued for wasting everyones time and then promptly barred from the casinos.

On a related note: tonight at the Commerce tournament there was a vey large foreign speaking rail practically running the tournament talking in all kinds of foreign languages during the play of the hands and the house did nothing to quiet things down. They would then jump over the rail when someone went all in to get a close look at the activities. I couldn't believe the house let them get away with all of their shenanegans.

[bernie]

no one has mentioned any personal experience of this type of behavior...

example...

one hand, i wasnt in but my drunk brother was, the board showed a FH, and my brother bet. a korean guy, the only opponent at this point, was about to fold, when another korean guy started yapping in korean. obviously telling him to call. the dealer, bless her soul, was very quick to quiet him, and the guy folded. and yes, it was an obvious call for the guy but he folded anyway. the dealer scolded him after the hand pretty good, and that was the end of it...but a much more blatant example was...

i was on a table late at night, and this bitch kept talking korean at the table. she was told many times to stop. the owner was korean, so he was a little lax...well, a little later she's in a hand with 4 others. ones a korean guy to her right. the action comes to her, she bets and says something to him almost hushed....the dealer, also korean, stops the action and calls the floor. looking at her, he says, "we've told you many times. and i speak korean and you just told that guy to fold." boy that set off a chain of events. the guy actually was caught in the middle embarassed to be associated in the event. the result? the owner let her stay, and the table lost 5 players instantly. it was a great game too. so no one can tell me it's not a fair rule, since ive been on the table where it had to be enforced, or lack of enforcement in the latter case...

as far as learning another language for another table? youd better know more than just 'raise, fold, etc..' you better know pronunciations for the suits, card names, and hand names.

ive often wondered if the endearing 'names' of hands ever had their roots in collusion. like, the 'buddy' hand for T4, or the sawmill, or the 'lover's' hand, etc..i personally never use them, but i listen for them during a hand.

anyway, this is one lawsuit that shouldnt be settled out of court. especially for the door it will open if it is.

but with our wonderful judicial system....

b

[lorinda]

Cell phones are banned at the table in every casino I play.

Also the English only rule only applies during play of the hand.

Lori