A thank you and a hand question....

[freekobe]

First off, I wanted to thank some of the key posters on this board. I find this board to be the most informative and most worthwhile on twoplustwo. While I've never had a conversation, either on the internet or in person, with anybody who posts here, I've gained invaluable information that has really helped my MTT game. MLG, Prime Time, and many others - thank you.

This thanks comes after a 6th place finish in last night's 915PM EST $100 MTT on Party. $1600 win. Not my biggest cash or my best finish, but I felt really good about the way I played. My steals made sense, my folds my sense. Everything I did I had a reason for. In the end, you can't ask for much more.

HAND QUESTION: With 6 to play, I was 3rd in chips, TC 40,000. Blinds of 3K/6K. Two stacks lower than me, three higher. I am UTG+1 with A5s.

I assume this is a pretty automatic steal, but maybe not. Regardless, I raise to TC 16,500. The SB goes all in for TC 28,000. Pot is currently 50,500. There's no way I can fold, right?

If I fold, I have 23,500 and some FE. If I call and lose, I have 12,000 with the BB hitting me in three hands.

I know pot odds dictate a call, but where does tournament strategy come in here? I figure his range of hands has me either dominated or drawing thin to an ace.

Thoughts?

[durron597]

This is a math question; if you don't play it by the numbers then you are doomed to get grinded out. The pot is 6k + his 28k + your 16.5k = 50.5k. You have to call 11.5k so you're getting 4.3:1 to call. that means you should call if you think his range of hands is wider than AA.

However, if I'm going to play A5s here at all, I just push in because the blinds are so big.

[Kristian]

You can't fold, and since you don't want callers to an A5, that means you should have gone All-in to begin with.

[SoBeDude]

You have a little over 6x the BB.

I think you have to take this shot, but its all-in.

Why? Well, this guy who reraised you might have folded if you had simply pushed all-in. If he calls you're in the same boat, but he just might fold.

-Scott

[Lurshy]

SoBe makes a great point. You need to be aware of who is going to act behind you, and what you will do if they play back. If you will be in a position where you 'have to call', either don't steal or just push first. One of the dangers of stealing against short stacks, is they will call with a wide range of hands. While you need to stay aggressive, just be aware...

With 6bb, just about any raise by you gets you pot stuck, so strongly consider pushing first.

[freekobe]

I see everyone's point here. Makes sense.

HOWEVER. If someone who had me covered pushed (and not someone who I covered), and I had to call TC 25,000 more instead of TC 11,000 or so, I thought I could fold. I'd still have some FE left, but I wouldn't risk elimination.

Does that play a role in my decision or is that irrelevant? I guess it's not that clear to me.

[durron597]

If someone who covered you pushed (assume not the BB) then the pot would be 40k + 3k + 6k + 16.5k or 65.5k, of which you'd have to call 23.5k. So your pot odds would be 2.78:1, which is still get pot odds to call with against AKs.

[DireWolf]

personally i would fold A5s preflop here.

[woodguy]

[ QUOTE ]
HOWEVER. If someone who had me covered pushed (and not someone who I covered), and I had to call TC 25,000 more instead of TC 11,000 or so, I thought I could fold. I'd still have some FE left, but I wouldn't risk elimination.

[/ QUOTE ]

You only have 6BB's here so if you are concerned about getting eliminated on a hand, fold PF.

You do not have enough chips to get involved, and then get away.


Regards,
Woodguy

[Shorty35]

Everyone has given you sound advice. Push or fold are your only options here. I, for one, would fold this preflop but it is close. You are middle position in terms of stacks - so others will "need" to make a move before you do and you have a very vulnerable A from early position. I would prefer to wait for one of the following to occur (1) somone elses mistake, (2) better position with a comparable hand or (3) a better hand. Or best yet, some combination of the three.

[SoBeDude]

[ QUOTE ]
personally i would fold A5s preflop here.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's 6 handed so only 4 to act after you. You have only 6BBs. You're about to eat the blinds. And you have a suited Ace.

With 15BBs, I'd fold here. with 6 it's an insta-push. I love my hand and I love my chances.

Honestly I think folding here is really bad.

-Scott

[SoBeDude]

I disagree. IMO, anyone suggesting a fold here is giving bad advice. Very weak-tight.

-Scott

[DireWolf]

ahh, sorry i didn't see the table was 6 handed. Yea, this is an obvious push.

What if it was a full table? I fold then.

[freekobe]

If I was UTG+1 at a full table with A5s and 66BB, I think it's an automatic fold. With so many people left to act, you have to let it go.

I see the rationale for pushing given my stack size and the fact that it is 6 handed with only four people left behind me, including two blinds.

I don't think folding here is horrible, but I can now see that the way I played it was poor. Not to be too results-driven, but the same thing would've happened regardless of how I played it.

[Shorty35]

I understand the rationale for the push - but as any experienced STT player will tell you, 6xBB + suited A = push does not always apply when the blinds are so high relative to stack size and when other stacks are under pressure first. A lot of this decision is a function of precise stack sizes and their location realtive to hero. I see that you had the SB covered (which does favor a push) - but what about the others left to act? Particularly the BB?

Im all for aggression. But in this case, I am pretty sure that you could find a higher EV spot (which, by the way may involve worse hole cards) in the next several hands. "Only four players left to act" is VERY different from "only two players left to act"

[tiger7210]

I fold A5s here UTG everytime unless I got a huge stack not a stack under 10 BB's. If i were in LP that's diferent but I would rather open with a hand like JTs so If I'm forced to call by a short stack there is a very good chance my cards are live unless he has a big pair.

If I was the lowest stack at the table then that becomes different and I push and take my shot but not with 3 stacks smaller than yours.

I'm not going broke on A5s when i still have 7x BB and others close to busting.

This just seems like a -$EV move.