Ho Hum Hands : River c/r's

[GuyOnTilt]

Hey guys,

This topic seems to come up pretty often when talking with people. Seems like a lot of guys want to start finding places to check-raise the river HU after putting in the last bet on the turn, but have a hard time recognizing places to do it. I know I make this play much more often than most, maybe even slightly too often, so I could use some more thought and input in this area too. Anyway, here are two hands I played yesterday that fit the criteria. These are all in the Party 15.

Hand 1:

I'm in the BB with A /images/graemlins/diamond.gifK /images/graemlins/heart.gif. TAG UTG limps, loose CO limps, Button limps, SB completes. I raise, all call to the SB who folds. 4 to the flop for 9 SB's.

Flop comes: A /images/graemlins/club.gif 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif4 /images/graemlins/club.gif

I bet, UTG calls, CO calls, Button folds. 3 for 6 BB's.

Turn comes: 4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

I bet, UTG calls, CO folds.

River comes: 2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

I check intending to raise. FWIW, I would've c/r'd with KK-JJ here as well here as well given I thought UTG was somewhat solid, a play which I'm definitely willing to rethink.

Hand 2:

I'm in the HJ with 7 /images/graemlins/club.gif7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif. UTG+1 (a little LAG) limps, folded to me and I raise. Button (semi-tight, average) calls, SB (overly loose and passive) calls, EP calls. 4 to the flop for 9 SB's.

Flop comes: Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

Checked to me and I bet. Button raises, SB folds, EP folds. I 3-bet, Button calls. HU to the turn for 7.5 BB's.

Turn comes: 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

EP checks, I bet, Button calls, EP folds. HU for 9.5 BB's.

River comes: 2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

I check intending to raise. I do not make this play very often here at all against thinking players, but will almost always do it against non-thinking ABC types.

GoT

[hockey1]

I like the second hand a lot better than the first.

On the first, the only hand that would bet here if checked to any reasonable % of times is a weak A, but you're up against a UTG limper who you describe as TAG, and most TAG players I know don't limp UTG with an A. I think you're much better off betting and getting called by 55-88.

Second hand button has KQ or QJs or 99 or some such thing and a river c/r is probably +EV.

[Barry]

Well I probably go for a c/r less then most, but I like it more in the 1st hand than the second (unless the button is fairly aggressive).

In the 1st hand I would guess that UTG either has 2 clubs or a middling suited A. If he has 2 clubs, he's not calling the river, so I don't miss a bet there. If he has an A, he's likely to think you finally gave up betting your KK-JJ and will take a stab at it and may well payoff the c/r. Plus while unlikely, there is some small probability that he might bluff at the river with his busted draw if you check.

The reason that I'm less excited about the 2nd hand is due to your 3-bet on the flop. That usually pacifies most players for the rest of the hand, unless they have monsters. So unless he's fairly aggressive post-flop, I think that he is more likely to check his Q behind when he would surely payoff your river bet.

[Barry]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you're much better off betting and getting called by 55-88.


[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think a TAG is calling the turn with those hands.

[ggbman]

I like hand 1 a lot, that is a tactic i was have been trying to employ myself latley. However, when you 3 bet a Tag on a non drawing flop, i dont like trying to check-raise the river. Then again, i would have smooth called the raise and waited until the turn if i were you there because a Tag isn't raising you with less then a Q and will bet if checked to.

Gabe

[gonores]

[ QUOTE ]
Turn comes: 4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

River comes: 2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Turn comes: 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

River comes: 2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes....those are recipes for successful lead -> river checkraise plays

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Turn comes: 4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

River comes: 2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Turn comes: 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

River comes: 2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes....those are recipes for successful lead -> river checkraise plays

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm trying to build river cr into my game and I don't understand these spots very well. In the second hand are you hoping he'll put you on a counterfeit two pair? Are you just assuming he'll bet a Q? Would you checkraise if the river wasn't a 2?

In the first I think the range of hands that contain an ace that he will pay of a cr is AJ ATs. I think there are many more hands willing to check behind. I also don't think this is a board a solid UTG limper will take a shot at with a missed draw.

Krishan

[gonores]

The pair on the river is inconsequential. All that matters is that two very blank-y cards came off, creating a situation where most hands your opponent will call with are hands your opponent will bet with.

[LarsVegas]

Seems like to two excellent spots for a checkraise.

In hand 1, are you checkraising KK-JJ for value or bluff? I don't think checkraising those hands are a good idea. The idea is to be so strong when checkraising that maybe Ax sometimes will check behind and give those pockets a free showdown and give you a fairly cheap postflop ride.

Or alternatively, they continue to bet their Ace, and lose a ton to hands like this.

lars

[steveyz]

I like hand #1. I don't like c/ring there with KK-JJ as you'll always get called by a weak A that's willing to bet that river.

Bet the river in hand #2, your line looks really strange, and I see a lot of player check through the river with a Q in this situation. If you wanted to check-raise, smooth call the flop and check-raise the turn.

[Diplomat]

All three are good spots for a river checkraise, although with the AK hand I do not expect it to happen, or to be called, that often.

[ QUOTE ]
FWIW, I would've c/r'd with KK-JJ here as well here as well given I thought UTG was somewhat solid, a play which I'm definitely willing to rethink.

[/ QUOTE ]

I rarely do this anymore and really need to get back to doing it more often. I blame playing too many hands against weak opposition and too many tables at once. Thanks for the reminder.

-Diplomat