Folding KK preflop.

[xorbie]

I can't seem to find the HH, so here goes.

NL50 on Party.

UTG+1: $56
Hero: Has table covered.
SB: $50

SB is pretty straightforward, tight agressive (as in VPIP < 20%, PFR around 5%). UTG+1 is super passive. I'm talking 0% PFR over 58 hands, with a VPIP of 25%, 0.4 agression postflop.

The action:

Hero has KK UTG+2. UTG folds, UTG+1 limps, I raise to $3, folded to SB who calls. UTG+1 raises to $25. Hero folds.

First time I've ever folded KK preflop, but I'm sure this was the right play. Agree? Disagree?

[Gustavo]

i would fold without a second tought , given what you said.

[Mathemagician]

Almost the exact same scenario last night from a loose passive. He raised $1 preflop UTG (not that he noticed his position), I reraised to $5, he pushed, I folded. Guy was a really bad player and I figured I'd have a better shot at his stack another time. Even bad players get AA once in a while...

M

[meleader2]

it's a shame he reraised so much preflop, otherwise it would be worth a call for that 7.5:1 shot on the K. Good fold.

[etgryphon]

[ QUOTE ]
Almost the exact same scenario last night from a loose passive. He raised $1 preflop UTG (not that he noticed his position), I reraised to $5, he pushed, I folded. Guy was a really bad player and I figured I'd have a better shot at his stack another time. Even bad players get AA once in a while...

M

[/ QUOTE ]

How many hands have you played against this guy? That may not have been a great move.

Nice "Little Man Tate" ref or Martin Gardner?

-Gryph

[Mathemagician]

About 100. He never raised preflop before. Even if he had AK, KK, or QQ I felt AA was much more than 50% likely. Both of our stacks were $40ish in a 25NL game. He can have the 5 bucks on this one, and I'll win it back in the next few pots. My general approach against bad players is to maximize the number of hands I play against them, rather than pressing marginal or potentially disastrous situations. If you hand a bad player a stack of 80 bucks, they often get up and leave.

M

[etgryphon]

[ QUOTE ]
About 100. He never raised preflop before. Even if he had AK, KK, or QQ I felt AA was much more than 50% likely. Both of our stacks were $40ish in a 25NL game. He can have the 5 bucks on this one, and I'll win it back in the next few pots. My general approach against bad players is to maximize the number of hands I play against them, rather than pressing marginal or potentially disastrous situations. If you hand a bad player a stack of 80 bucks, they often get up and leave.

M

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree completely...Sounds like a good laydown.

-Gryph

[kurto]

your avatar... is that a talking loaf of bread with ears?

If so... I can only assume that its from a Japanese video game.

[kongo_totte]

I would like to agree w/ the fold. However, at these limits I have seen so many players (even very passive ones over 58 hands) play TT-JJ like A A.

I never fold K K pre-flop if stacks aren't insanely deep or I have an insanely good read (over att least a couple of hundred hands), and I think I am right doing so. Perhaps he had A A, but in my experience it's just as often (or more often) JJ-QQ or A K.

[xorbie]

It's not just that he's so passive. But he has a 25% VPIP. He clearly plays hands, so he likes them. But he never, ever raises. And here he is limp re-raising essentially all in. I've seen that with TT-QQ pretty rarely.

[xorbie]

Just wanted to point out that according to my crude calculations, there is only a 45% chance of not getting either JJ, QQ or KK in 58 hands. So if we are assuming this guy is going nutso with those hands, it more than likely would have happened by now.