party/empire re-buys. rip-off??

[MicroBob]

Assuming it's the same on party now too.

Currently playing the empire 25+2 $10k guaranteed which is now a re-buy tourney.

The re-buys and add-on's are 25+2 also. Not just 25+0.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't taking another +2 out of each re-buy a total rip-off?

[TheTimeIsUp]

[ QUOTE ]
Assuming it's the same on party now too.

Currently playing the empire 25+2 $10k guaranteed which is now a re-buy tourney.

The re-buys and add-on's are 25+2 also. Not just 25+0.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't taking another +2 out of each re-buy a total rip-off?

[/ QUOTE ]

It sure is. Too bad Party/Emp are money whores, and they know people will play them anyway. Sadly, I am one of those people.

[protoverus]

Looks to me like the rebuys are the 'guarantee' that Empire won't have to pay any overlay in their $10000 guaranteed tourneys....

[Moonsugar]

It is not a total ripoff because most people do not even rebuy or addon, so the vig is made up by the large size of your stack relative to other players.

Once everybody at Party understands these tournies better then the structure will be worse than the other sites.

Also, fyi there is a (bug) in the software that does not count your chips that are in the pot for the 1000 limit, so you can bet big and "rebuy" many times, if you want.

[MicroBob]

agreed.


however...the conversation that is taking place on my table on how stupid it is to waste your money on a re-buy is very amusing. well worth the extra $4 I have paid on my re-buy and add-on.

I can't figure out how to copy the chat at the table (right-click does something different for some reason) or else I would share it here.


except for the one maniac who spent a ton...re-buying was VERY conservative in this event compared to a stars re-buy. it's just a bunch of people who want to play a $25 tourney who would NEVER consider re-buying.

Out of 314 players there were only 5 re-buys in the first few hands. I was one of them as I almost always re-buy at the start for double-chips.
I was actually the first player to re-buy...and it took me 2 or 3 hands to get around to doing it.

[protoverus]

I've never played in a rebuy but my intuition told me to definately buy the addon at the first break...same price for 1500 chips (500 more than starting amount). Is this correct? I was at about 1200 at break.

Thanks.

[MicroBob]

in these types of re-buys and add-on tourneys (being the fairly typical kind) with a normal pay-out structure it is almost mandatory to take re-buys and add-ons I believe.

This is covered in Mason's GTAOT but I need to re-read.


But I am always re-buying and adding-on in tourneys like this with a typical format.

[Stipe_fan]

I will always add-on. I don't rebuy very often. Some so-called knowledgeable MTTer w/rebuy said that once you double up your chips you should start to play a normal game. Thus if you start with 1500 and rebuy to make it 3K, then you should start to play your normal style once you accumulate 6K.

FWIW,

Stipe

[Lurshy]

[ QUOTE ]
I can't figure out how to copy the chat at the table (right-click does something different for some reason) or else I would share it here.


[/ QUOTE ]

Try hilighiting the text and hit <Ctrl>+c
<Ctrl>+v will paste.

[MicroBob]

cool.
that worked. thanks.

[meow_meow]

[ QUOTE ]

I was actually the first player to re-buy...and it took me 2 or 3 hands to get around to doing it.

[/ QUOTE ]

If this was last night's tourney, I'm pretty sure I was the first to rebuy. So there....

Same conversation on my table. It seemed like a lot of the players had qualified in an earlier tourney, which seems a bit of a ripoff for a rebuy. Less than half of the remaining players added-on, and the average number of rebuys was well under 1 (vs. >2 for the daily stars 11+)

[DonButtons]

I love these tournaments, wish they took the rake off the rebuys though...

[M.B.E.]

Is it a "rip-off"? Well it's certainly a worse deal than rebuys at Stars. The longstanding practice in B&M rebuy tournaments as well is to charge no vig on the rebuy.

But how would you define "rip-off"?

If rebuy tournaments had not been invented yet, and Party/Empire started offering them, it would seem reasonable to take vig on each rebuy, wouldn't it? So I don't think I'd call that a rip-off, as long they are up-front and transparent about the vig they are taking. Rather, I would just emphasize what a great deal Stars is offering. When you think about the 22:15 $11R on Stars, the prize pool is generally over $40K but they only make $1,000 a day on that. Wouldn't they have higher profits if even half of those players were playing cash games or SNGs during that time instead?

As for Empire, I've made so much from the overlay on their guaranteed tournaments, that I'm not going to complain about them stopping the party (lower-case "p"). Frankly it always seemed like a very bad business decision for Empire to give away thousands of dollars each week on that tournament; for a while I was afraid they would go out of business.

[Benal]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, fyi there is a (bug) in the software that does not count your chips that are in the pot for the 1000 limit, so you can bet big and "rebuy" many times, if you want.

[/ QUOTE ]

At what point does exploiting this "bug" become -EV? 5K chips, 10K ?

[meow_meow]

You make a very good point. They are simply collecting more rake relative to established practices, but still just 10% of the total buy-in, as will regular tourneys.

Maybe it's not so bad - someone posted the other day about playing in AC somewhere in a 50+15 tourney, and someone in the same thread mentioned a 20+10...
internet still has it over B&M