datamining O8....

[Mr_J]

How many of you have PTO&PV setups?? How useful is it? What about datamining 24/7?

I'm looking to change my setup, and this will definately affect things. Either I:

1) Have my laptop run PT during peak hours datamining, and have it networked with a computer built for 3-4 monitors (12 tabling +lobbies).

2) Replace the laptop in the above idea with a server, and run it 24/7.

3) Get a computer that can handle it all. I guess P4 3.0+ with HT, 1gig, 2x dual DVI video cards and a 10krpm HDD?

[gergery]

You are hardcore.

Personally, I think datamining is a bit overrated. Once you get 40 table hours or so at one limit you have enough to get a feel for what typical #s are for different types of players, which helps you categorize their play.

After that, just set up the datamine to run for 30 minutes to sit down before you play. All you really need is a rough approximation of VPIP and W$SD to get a sense.

Beyond that, I don't see what gathering reams of extra data will do for you. Once you get 300 or so hands on the regulars more hands won't help. And the infrequent players don't play enough for this to help with.

Personally, I find too much data slows down my system alot, so data mining has a small cost. But whatever floats your boat.

--Greg

[Mr_J]

I'm new to datamining and O8 so I have no idea how useful it'd be. I had the same thinking as you with regulars and the infrequent players. Alot less people playing than O8, say any regulars will be covered quickly and the rest won't play enough.

Don't think I'll >8table anyway (at least not O8 by itself, I might throw in 4 SNGs if I'm playing 8 O8 games). There aren't enough O8 tables at any limit to 12 table, which means I'd have to mix it up between buyins. Most of the 5/10 tables are 6max anyway.

[GooperMC]

Another thing that I find data mining useful for is deciding when to switch tables and deciding which tables to switch to.

While I am playing I have all of the tables in my limit open with PTO logging hands. I can then watch the VP$IP / WtSD averages for the entire table to help decide when my table has dried up. When it has I will flip through all the other tables too see which one is the juiciest.

I have found this to be very useful since party doesn’t tell you any tables averages beyond average pot.

I have found normal data mining (leave a bunch of tables running 24/7) very helpful, however I am not sure it will be for you. I have used it to polish some of the rougher edges in my game, but I would assume that you have logged a bunch more hands then I have so your game probably isn’t as rough as mine was. If you are looking to get specific reads on player I agree with Greg that leaving PTO running for a ½ hour before playing is sufficient.

[ QUOTE ]
Get a computer that can handle it all. I guess P4 3.0+ with HT, 1gig, 2x dual DVI video cards and a 10krpm HDD?

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On a complete side note you don’t need that much horse power to data mine. I have an athlon XP 2800 with 512MB PC3200 ram and a 7200 RPM hard drive which can easily handle 16 tables at the same time. Also HT isn’t going to help because PTO looks to be single threaded anyway. However if you want to use this as an excuse to build a monster system I am completely behind you /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Ironman]

J,

One of the things that you might find useful is that people have suggested NOT to datamine 24/7. The database just becomes too large so quickly and there is just so much irrelevant data in the system.

If you play each night from 7pm to 11 pm...then data mine around those hours (plus or minus). Those are the people you will play against.

I really love it.

Last night I sat down at a SNG (which I won using some of the recent helpful thoughts from 2+2) while I datamined 3 tables in the background.

[gergery]

[ QUOTE ]
I can then watch the VP$IP / WtSD averages for the entire table to help decide when my table has dried up. When it has I will flip through all the other tables too see which one is the juiciest.


[/ QUOTE ]

How do you see the averages of tables you are datamining before you sit down? I currently datamine a table, but can't see its averages. I'd have to look players up individually, or sit down at the table for one hand, then force import and see the stats to decide whether to stay. I haven't found a way to see the stats before sitting.

I'd hate to think I'm missing something important about mining here.... /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[Ironman]

Gergery,

Are you using Gametime? We are using Playerview.

When we open up four tables, PT and PV start working right away. We don't need to be sitting at the tables.

Right away, the numbers will flash up for anyone that is already in the database.

Anyone new will be starting from scratch.

This way we can scroll through the tables and see which one you like before you sit down.

[Mr_J]

"Another thing that I find data mining useful for is deciding when to switch tables and deciding which tables to switch to."

Yep. I wasn't really questioning how valuable it is for table selection, just the need for huge databases since O8 doesn't get nearly the same volume as HE.

"ut I would assume that you have logged a bunch more hands then I have so your game probably isn’t as rough as mine was"

Heh think again. I've played 2 days of O8, around 2k hands. Both were at .5/1 working off bonuses, and that is my O8 experience.

"On a complete side note you don’t need that much horse power to data mine."

Yeh looks like my laptop could actually handle it all. I've had 12 tables open with PT and PV running. Need 4 monitors though so looks like I'll get something cheap, add 2 video cards and some ram. Even if the cheap computer couldn't handle it all, I could just get my laptop to run PT and the cheap one to run the 4 monitors and poker sites. Money I save from machine can go towards buying a few new dells ($$$$$).

That reminds me, 2001FPs are nearly gone. Off the aussie site but still advertised at $200 off, so I guess they're clearing them out. Replacing them with a damn 1900x1200 widescreen that costs 33% more. 3 days to try and scrape together as much as I can to buy as many 2001s as I can. I guess there are alternatives though. The 2001 was the only 1600x1200 LCD offered for under 1.1kUS here though.

[gergery]

[ QUOTE ]
Gergery,

Are you using Gametime? We are using Playerview.

When we open up four tables, PT and PV start working right away. We don't need to be sitting at the tables.


[/ QUOTE ]

Ahh, that explains it. I am not using Playerview, just the Gametime windows PTO has.

My system is a bit slow, and has crashed a number of times when I’m 3-tabling with gametime for each table up, so I have been reluctant to add new software.

I supposed Playerview could use less CPU time, so perhaps I should give it a try.

It did say that I needed to download something extra (Microsoft relay exchange?), I hope that’s not a problem.

Thanks for the help.

--greg

[GooperMC]

[ QUOTE ]

Yep. I wasn't really questioning how valuable it is for table selection, just the need for huge databases since O8 doesn't get nearly the same volume as HE.

[/ QUOTE ]
In which case I agree with everyone else; if you are going to data mine, data mine a little bit before and while you are playing. That will give you better data.

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Need 4 monitors though so looks like I'll get something cheap,

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Maybe if you want to play 12 tables but not for data mining. The tables don't have to be visible for the hands to be logged so you can just leave them running in the background. I usually play 3 tables and stack up all the data mining tables in the 4th spot on my monitor. Keep PTO visible on the other monitor and I am good to go.

[GooperMC]

[ QUOTE ]
I supposed Playerview could use less CPU time, so perhaps I should give it a try.

[/ QUOTE ]
My guess is that PTO and PlayerView will be able to co-exist on your system because they require different resources. PlayerView hogs your CPU and PTO hogs your hard drive.

PlaverView needs the CPU to find out where to draw all those pretty number and then to draw them. PTO needs the hard drive to read all the hand history files and then to write them back do a bloated acess database.

If PTO really slows down your system a faster hard drive (or maybe just a defrag) could really help. Hard drives are cheap and a defrag is free.

[Mr_J]

"Maybe if you want to play 12 tables but not for data mining."

The idea would be to have my laptop and the other computer networked, with PTO running on my laptop and PV and the site software running on the other computer. Spreading the workload...