Wreckless bluff, or smart move? [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

View Full Version : Wreckless bluff, or smart move?

young nut

05-03-2005, 07:10 PM

So I'm fairly new to NL ring, I'm usually a 3/6 limit player. But I have decided to try out some NL. I was wondering about this bluff on the river, please take a look at the hand.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

SB ($124.1)
Hero ($110.85)
UTG ($141.15)
UTG+1 ($100.35)
UTG+2 ($100.15)
MP1 ($113.15)
MP2 ($16.3)
MP3 ($192.31)
CO ($50.9)
Button ($27.4)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.5.
UTG raises to $4, 4 folds, MP3 calls $4, CO calls $4, Button calls $4, 1 fold, Hero calls $3.

Flop: ($20.50) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP3 bets $10, CO folds, Button folds, Hero raises to $20, UTG folds, MP3 calls $10.

Turn: ($60.50) T/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 checks.

River: ($60.50) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $40.....

In this hand, villian who bet the flop was a pretty tight VPIP player who seemed to play a very standard preflop game. I had been at this table for over 150 hands. I figured his hands he would call an EP raise with here were medium pocket pairs and higher, or high broadway cards. Assuming that, his bet on the flop made me 70% sure he was on an overpair. The c/r on the flop was for flush value and to take control of the hand, and for protection of my overcards.

After he checked behind on the turn, I figured he was scared of the 3 on the flop. I knew he had somewhat of a strong hand because he called my checkraise fairly quickly. My check on the turn also signaled that I was possibly scared of the 10.

So then comes the river, the 8. I figured this was the perfect card for me to bluff at. The way I played the hand signaled I could possibly be holding an 8. Of course so could he. But with the strength he played the flop and his PF tight standards, I felt that this was unlikely. So I jammed the river hard.

Thoughts? Was this a wreckless bet sure to get called? Or did I make decent reads good enough to know what he had?

swolfe

05-03-2005, 07:54 PM

i hate your play. you check-minraise the flop and then don't lead out on the turn? wtf?

two other things:
1 - fold preflop
2 - it's spelled reckless. no W needed.

Yeknom58

05-03-2005, 07:58 PM

Why fold preflop, he closes the action and theres lots of money in the pot? Post flop he needs to play carefully if he flops TP but his relative position to the raiser is excellent so treading carefully is pretty easy.

jkkkk

05-03-2005, 08:01 PM

i like this bet at the end, i put villain on an overpair or suited paint, either way he can't call here unless he puts you on a lower pp like 9's or j's (holding Q's)

swolfe

05-03-2005, 08:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Why fold preflop, he closes the action and theres lots of money in the pot? Post flop he needs to play carefully if he flops TP but his relative position to the raiser is excellent so treading carefully is pretty easy.

[/ QUOTE ]

good point about closing the action. i guess the call is fine...i was too annoyed by the check-minraise /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Yeknom58

05-03-2005, 08:08 PM

Your min CR is silly unless you've done this in the past with similar strong hands. Not leading the turn after your likely silly flop CR is just sillier.

And if I had JJ or better in your opponents spot I'm calling a over 1/2 the time. Your flop play and turn check stink of crap hand (No pair/no draw).

young nut

05-03-2005, 08:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why fold preflop, he closes the action and theres lots of money in the pot? Post flop he needs to play carefully if he flops TP but his relative position to the raiser is excellent so treading carefully is pretty easy.

[/ QUOTE ]

good point about closing the action. i guess the call is fine...i was too annoyed by the check-minraise /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

why was the minraise so bad here. I didn't want to commit myself too much. I also wanted to pump the draw while at the same time cleaning my overcard outs. If the guy did happen to have the case 3, then making a bigger c/r would lose me more money.

imo, I can see it from both sides. But in this particular hand, I feel that the minraise accomplished the same objective as a bigger sized raise.

Think about it. The minraise doesn't give villian too much information on my hand. making it a minraise can make it look like I'm milking trips, or it can make it look like I have TPTK.

swolfe

05-03-2005, 08:22 PM

for what it's worth, the river bet is good although i think he'll call with an underfull.

i play my draws aggressively, but not when the board comes out paired. if you were pretty sure that MP didn't have a 3, then you should have raised more. whatever he had, your minraise gave him great odds to draw to it, especially when you check the turn after.