struggling w/ QQ and weak stacks... 30+3

[syphlix]

what do you do here?... guess the 2 lines you can take is call/push a non-AK flop or just push right off... anyone do differently?... what do you do and why?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

SB (t770)
BB (t980)
UTG (t775)
<font color="#C00000">Hero (t545)</font>
MP1 (t830)
MP2 (t745)
CO (t800)
<font color="#C00000">Button (t760)</font>

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t90</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to t150</font>.


<font color="red"> Hero ?????? </font>

[DasLeben]

Poosh! You'll get shown jacks, tens, and AK enough here.

[tminus]

funny you should ask, i had a nearly identical hand today
foe showed some loose hands prior to this:

NL Hold'em $5 Buy-in + $1 Entry Fee Trny:11886318 Level:1 Blinds(10/15) - Tuesday, May 03, 19:28:53 EDT 2005
Table Table 17608 (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 4: bottleservic ( $975 )
Seat 6: Tminus ( $800 )
Seat 8: RAT_THE_CAT ( $710 )
Seat 7: Scottche ( $785 )
Seat 2: tbur69 ( $1030 )
Seat 5: e420m ( $740 )
Seat 10: liberty123 ( $490 )
Seat 1: sckdeznutz8 ( $305 )
Seat 3: rolltide18 ( $1490 )
Seat 9: Win322 ( $675 )
Trny:11886318 Level:1
Blinds(10/15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Tminus [ Qc Qh ]
e420m folds.
Tminus raises [70].
Scottche folds.
RAT_THE_CAT folds.
Win322 folds.
liberty123 folds.
sckdeznutz8 is all-In [305]
tbur69 folds.
rolltide18 folds.
bottleservic folds.
Tminus calls [235].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 9h, Qs, 8d ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ Ks ]
** Dealing River ** [ 9s ]
Tminus shows [ Qc, Qh ] a full house, Queens full of nines.
sckdeznutz8 shows [ Kc, Kd ] a full house, Kings full of nines.
sckdeznutz8 wins 635 chips from the main pot with a full house, Kings full of nines.
Game #1994411596 starts.

what am i to do, lay it down ?

[DasLeben]

[ QUOTE ]
what am i to do, lay it down ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Do a search on this board for "results oriented" and see what you find.

[syphlix]

[ QUOTE ]
Poosh! You'll get shown jacks, tens, and AK enough here.

[/ QUOTE ]

even on 30's?...

anyone else think this?

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Poosh! You'll get shown jacks, tens, and AK enough here.

[/ QUOTE ]

even on 30's?...

anyone else think this?

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't played enough to get a statistically significant sample, but the times I've seen this, I've run into KK and AA.

Again, this is purely anecdotal.

[curtains]

Someone should do a statistical analysis of how often a mini reraise means AA-KK at each level in the first 2-3 rounds.

[syka16]

[ QUOTE ]
Poosh! You'll get shown jacks, tens, and AK enough here.

[/ QUOTE ]

enough for what? the play to be slightly above breaking even?

QQ v TT+, AK: win %52.4

[flyby4553]

I would probably call and see what the flop brings, ready to give up if an A or K hits and the Button bets. But I'm not sure thats right, if he has AA or KK your beat anyways, JJ or lower your still ahead. So the only hand this really helps against is AK where you want the Villain to call if the flop brings unders. Folding QQ seems wrong here too but if you put him on TT+, AK then you probably need to fold or push and forget about calling.

[IcarusFalling]

call or raise.. i might call because personally im trying to tone down my QQ action just a notch... ive lost an insane amount with QQ in nlhe .. but ofcourse tourneys are different

[DasLeben]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Poosh! You'll get shown jacks, tens, and AK enough here.

[/ QUOTE ]

enough for what? the play to be slightly above breaking even?

QQ v TT+, AK: win %52.4

[/ QUOTE ]

QQ vs AKo: 56/44
QQ vs AKs: 54/46
QQ vs JJ: 83/17
QQ vs TT: 83/17

I don't see what you're getting at.

Another reason I hate the idea of calling here is that if an ace or king does hit the flop, you're folding leaving yourself with t480. Certainly you can come back from that, but it's not a great place to be, especially if the blinds are going to rise soon.

Anyways, append all my posts with an imaginary "IMO." I'm a 10+1 player, so take my advice with a grain of salt when talking about higher buyins.

[prepotency]

[ QUOTE ]
call or raise.. i might call because personally im trying to tone down my QQ action just a notch... ive lost an insane amount with QQ in nlhe .. but ofcourse tourneys are different

[/ QUOTE ]

ya tournies are different. push here.

also - I would have raised a bit more initially with QQ just because your raise is practically an exact value bet for your hand. Looks like the reraiser is playing on your weakness. Why raise 90 when you can raise &gt;115?
I dunno, that's just what I would think.

[syka16]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Poosh! You'll get shown jacks, tens, and AK enough here.

[/ QUOTE ]

enough for what? the play to be slightly above breaking even?

QQ v TT+, AK: win %52.4

[/ QUOTE ]

QQ vs AKo: 56/44
QQ vs AKs: 54/46
QQ vs JJ: 83/17
QQ vs TT: 83/17

I don't see what you're getting at.

Another reason I hate the idea of calling here is that if an ace or king does hit the flop, you're folding leaving yourself with t480. Certainly you can come back from that, but it's not a great place to be, especially if the blinds are going to rise soon.

Anyways, append all my posts with an imaginary "IMO." I'm a 10+1 player, so take my advice with a grain of salt when talking about higher buyins.

[/ QUOTE ]

AA KK QQ?

[tminus]

well golly gee beav..the search engine didnt report anything

[ilya]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Poosh! You'll get shown jacks, tens, and AK enough here.

[/ QUOTE ]

enough for what? the play to be slightly above breaking even?

QQ v TT+, AK: win %52.4

[/ QUOTE ]

Point taken, but don't forget that there's already a fair bit of money in the pot. You're getting 1.5:1 on your push.

I don't see the point of calling and pushing a non-A, non-K flop, as that'll only help you against AK, and you don't mind racing AK getting 1.5:1.

So just push.

[DasLeben]

[ QUOTE ]
well golly gee beav..the search engine didnt report anything

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure it does. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Eevee]

Well, i feel like I am being useless on this forum so i guess I will post MO. IMO, this is a poosh. QQ is too strong, and the fact that this a 33 means nothing. I will see a move like this from JJ , AQ, and AJ even at the 55s. While it is likely that he could have AK, I still think ur only option is is to push, considering ur chipstack. Definitely +EV. Peace.

-EV

[david050173]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Poosh! You'll get shown jacks, tens, and AK enough here.

[/ QUOTE ]

even on 30's?...

anyone else think this?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. You will also see any pocket pair and Ax.

The different buyins are not radically different. In 20 you have 2 or 3 decent players. At 30s you have 3 or 4. Part of the key is knowing who is good and who is weak. The large pool or players make this hard but if you play enough you and start making notes you will occasionally run into the situtation where you have 3 or 4 notes that a player way over plays weak aces or is an agressive bluffer. Sometimes these notes lead you astray (everyone wakes up with AA sometimes) but they are better than no info

[Newt_Buggs]

with no reads I usually assume that this reraise is 1 of two things:
1. a test to see how you respond to find where his marginal hand stands
2. A trap that is meant to get the pot bigger without scaring you off and to give you the chance to reraise.

if option 1, he will probably fold, if option 2 he will call. You have position on him, so personally I would call and outplay him on the flop rather then gamble that he didn't get delt AA, KK, AK (although most players would not raise this amount with AK).

[syphlix]

[ QUOTE ]
with no reads I usually assume that this reraise is 1 of two things:
1. a test to see how you respond to find where his marginal hand stands
2. A trap that is meant to get the pot bigger without scaring you off and to give you the chance to reraise.

if option 1, he will probably fold, if option 2 he will call. You have position on him, so personally I would call and outplay him on the flop rather then gamble that he didn't get delt AA, KK, AK (although most players would not raise this amount with AK).

[/ QUOTE ]

i didn't have position... which is where part of the predicament came from...

[ QUOTE ]
Looks like the reraiser is playing on your weakness. Why raise 90 when you can raise &gt;115?
I dunno, that's just what I would think.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think it is pretty rare that players (at least at these lower levels) play to perceived weakness with what is essentially a min-raise...

Also, my reason for the raise to 90 is basically bc that's the typical default 3xBB raise... i think w/ something like QQ early in the tourney it's pretty wise to do something like this... it forces out good players who respect decent raises... and if a crap player was gonna call 90, he's gonna call 115... also... if i get raised all in... truthfully i'd fold... and i don't want to risk more than i need to find out if i need to fold...

[tminus]

well then do a search on "sarcasm"

[DasLeben]

[ QUOTE ]
well then do a search on "sarcasm"

[/ QUOTE ]

Jeez. The hell is your problem? Relax.

[tminus]

please forgive me for i thought your reference to being "results oriented" was sarcastic

really, ive never heard it used before in poker and thought you were being a smartass