If you think PlayerView is too expensive, read this!

[PokerAce]

I'm developing an alternative. Read and join in on this thread:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=2306173&page=0&view=colla psed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

[SinSixer]

This is freaking hilarious. I am also a developer and see the price for PV as quite acceptable. This has been a one man project with an extremely limited market. I would love to know exactly how much time Amir has devoted to PV. After providing support, updates, new feature since last October.. I would be suprised if it was less then a few hundred hours. Selling a thousand thousand copies, to make 50k (pretax) is peanuts, considering the amount of work he will have to put in to keep it up, add new poker room support, deal with PT modifiacations etc etc etc...

Good luck with your imitation. The way I see it, 1 of 3 things will happen:

1) You start work on this a realize how much time and effort it will require and then realize that you will be giving it away and it becomes "vaporware".

2) You scratch out a vastly inferior product with no updates or support and no one cares or uses it.

3) You make a kick ass, superior application that everyone loves and can't live without, and you realize that you deserve to make at least $50k for the amount of time and ingenuity you put into it for the 1000 or so copies you could potentially sell.

[RevAgain]

Ditto, if you don't think it's worth $50 then why are you using it in the first place, you using it at the 1c/2c games!?

The problem comes from PT being such great value and PV being the same price despite being an add-on. It's (PT) not a desperately complicated program to write but it's a commercial program, people use it to make money. I don't think they would have sold nearly so many if PT was, say, $100, and it's sensible to price it relatively cheaply as they'll make the most money that way. It's certainly worth a lot more than they charge for it though, at least in the right hands.

Good luck with the program but asking $50 for PV is not greedy in the slightest and I agree with Sin...

[felson]

Whatever.

[PokerAce]

Thank you Nostradamus. Without immitation, there would be no innovation. I'm trying to offer a cheaper alternative. If GameTime+ suited my needs, I'd be using that.

Basically, I plan on writing a simple application that allows the stats from PokerTracker to be displayed on the poker window. It will be pretty cut and dry.

It will likely be released for free. I have other open source projects, so releasing my software for free is not a big deal. I get satisfaction in releasing applications that people find useful. I play poker to pay the bills, and I have ample free time. I'm putting some of that free time to good use now.

If my application catches on and the need for advanced features is there, then I may branch off and create a commercial version. How much I charge depends on how much it does. With equivalent functionality to PlayerView, that would be $20.

[SinSixer]

[ QUOTE ]
If my application catches on and the need for advanced features is there, then I may branch off and create a commercial version. How much I charge depends on how much it does.

[/ QUOTE ]

Charge?! Isn't the satisfaction in releasing applications that people find useful enough!!!! Jeezus, GameTime+ is free, no one wants to pay for your app! LOL

[DeezNutz3]

I'M NOT PAYING THAT MUCH...THAT'S UNREAL.

[SlyGuy]

Is it really necessary for you 2 knobs to follow every plaverview thread around? Do you have a stake in PV?

[touchfaith]

[ QUOTE ]
Thank you Nostradamus. Without immitation, there would be no innovation. I'm trying to offer a cheaper alternative. If GameTime+ suited my needs, I'd be using that.

Basically, I plan on writing a simple application that allows the stats from PokerTracker to be displayed on the poker window. It will be pretty cut and dry.

It will likely be released for free. I have other open source projects, so releasing my software for free is not a big deal. I get satisfaction in releasing applications that people find useful. I play poker to pay the bills, and I have ample free time. I'm putting some of that free time to good use now.

If my application catches on and the need for advanced features is there, then I may branch off and create a commercial version. How much I charge depends on how much it does. With equivalent functionality to PlayerView, that would be $20.

[/ QUOTE ]

Great job man, I'll be looking forward to checking it out.

These people have no clue about what they are talking about, let the haters hate, it's -EV for them.

Software of this nature was meant to be free or very (very) inexpensive. People act like they've never downloaded freeware/shareware before...

Did you all download the FREE Kazaa? Or did you PAY????

How about WINAMP??? Paying for that or using the free one????

Fking haters and hypocrites have no clue.

You don't think that Amir, a likely college student, gained experience that will translate to $$ down the road from writing PV??

For most upcoming developers, it is enough...but others get greedy once they actually make something people like.

Others (and eventually more successful ones) typically abondon their first products to freeware...gaining a following and building a reputation...and then release a BETTER...WORKING version for $$$.

How times change.

[SinSixer]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you have a stake in PV?

[/ QUOTE ]

NO. But I do have a stake in my years of education and traing it takes to become a software devloper, and to see people mock this because they are too cheap to spend 10 bets on a product they use for hundreds of hours a year pisses me off. Its no wonder so many software jobs are outsourced to third world slave camps. Piracy and cheap bastards.

[moondogg]

Software development without profit is masturbation.

[brazilio]

I like how you two nutjobs are posting your nonsense in every single pv thread.

[SinSixer]

Wrong. This is the only thread I've posted this in. The OP crossposted this same thread. I addded the response to it in the software forum. The onus is on you to back up your statement and prove your not a total jackass. Link to everythread Ive been posting this nonsense in.

[Tapin]

[ QUOTE ]
Software development without profit is masturbation.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, yeah. What, you don't like masturbation?

[mosta]

[ QUOTE ]

These people have no clue about what they are talking about, let the haters hate, it's -EV for them.

Software of this nature was meant to be free or very (very) inexpensive. People act like they've never downloaded freeware/shareware before...

Did you all download the FREE Kazaa? Or did you PAY????

How about WINAMP??? Paying for that or using the free one????

Fking haters and hypocrites have no clue.


[/ QUOTE ]

[partial] list of software I have obtained without paying:

msft word (at least half a dozen times going back to the 80s)
msft office/etc (almost half a dozen times)
norton ghost
file maker pro
process guard
registry mechanic
WinRAR
WinZip
...off the top of my head. almost all the software I have is either pirated, unpaid shareware, or freeware.

software I have paid for:
pokertracker
playerview
handgrabber.

Hmm. why the difference? because these programs make me money. without trying to distinguish the two products, I'd probably feel a thousand bucks was well worth it for the combination of PT and PV--a good investment. anyone who's going to make a case over 50 bucks versus 25 bucks--what game do you play???

[SlyGuy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do you have a stake in PV?

[/ QUOTE ]

NO. But I do have a stake in my years of education and traing it takes to become a software devloper, and to see people mock this because they are too cheap to spend 10 bets on a product they use for hundreds of hours a year pisses me off. Its no wonder so many software jobs are outsourced to third world slave camps. Piracy and cheap bastards.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am a software developer and that is totally irrelevant.

[brazilio]

Well I would, but my hard work and training in college to become yet another unemployed Systems Administrator can't allow me to mock you properly. The onus is on you to distinguish the difference between YOUR and YOU'RE.

[brazilio]

haha, you pirated filemaker pro.

[astroglide]

you need windows to run pokertracker

[mosta]

I'm not sure whether I've paid for windows: all my machines have been refurbs. so it could go either way I guess. Owner paid for windows. I paid him. But then, none of my money went to MSFT. I can proudly say I've never given a cent to MSFT. ... Yeah, I'm pretty sure.

[astroglide]

i don't see why that should be a source of pride

[Your Mom]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure whether I've paid for windows: all my machines have been refurbs. so it could go either way I guess. Owner paid for windows. I paid him. But then, none of my money went to MSFT. I can proudly say I've never given a cent to MSFT. ... Yeah, I'm pretty sure.

[/ QUOTE ]

Congrats on stealing.

[NoTalent]

In another thread I saw GT+ was going opensource!

[beernutz]

[ QUOTE ]
Software development without profit is masturbation.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's wrong with masturbation?

[BigBaitsim (milo)]

I Neteller-ed Amir the $50 the very same day he went commercial. He has made me many times over this amount, which is less than one pot at 5/10. Since I'm four-tabling 5/10-SH games, I don't get clean reads very often. Amir's little program is worth several times its asking price.

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
If GameTime+ suited my needs, I'd be using that.

[/ QUOTE ]
If GT+ doesn't suit your needs, why not fix it or adding the features you want rather than starting over from scratch?

[PokerAce]

I wanted to let everyone know that development on this application is still active! I've posted an update thread in the Software forum, but a large number of you probably don't visit that forum very often.

You can read the update thread here:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=2410193&page=0&view=colla psed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

[tubalkain]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure whether I've paid for windows: all my machines have been refurbs. so it could go either way I guess. Owner paid for windows. I paid him. But then, none of my money went to MSFT. I can proudly say I've never given a cent to MSFT. ... Yeah, I'm pretty sure.

[/ QUOTE ]

Congrats on stealing.

[/ QUOTE ]

He hasn't stolen anything. Stealing something requires that someone be deprived of the thing being stolen. Microsoft hasn't been deprived of anything here.

There is a clause in the XP license agreement that makes it nontransferable, but even in this extreme case nothing has been stolen... the license may be terminated and the buyer and seller may both be liable in court for obscene amounts of money, but nothing has been stolen.

[2ndGoat]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Software development without profit is masturbation.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's wrong with masturbation?

[/ QUOTE ]

Self-improvement is masturbation. Self-destruction is the answer.

[OrianasDaad]

Anyone who doesn't want to pay $50 for PV and doesn't like GT+ can always use the "advanced export" feature of PT.

I'm going to be getting a "free" copy of PV through an affiliate signup deal I found, which will remain unnamed, but I'm in no hurry.

Amir has made an excellent product, and deserves to be paid for what he has produced.

As for another program? Competition is always healthy.