100/200 6 handed

[Paluka]

6 handed game with some guys I haven't played with much lately. The game doesn't seem great.
I raise 7d8d in the cutoff, button folds, sb 3 bets. BB calls the raises and I call. Flop comes 863 rainbow. Sb bets, bb raises. Fold or raise here? Calling seems really bad. I raised. They both called. Turn was a another 3 and the sb bet out again and the bb called. Do I give up here?

[rigoletto]

You are getting 11:1, peel one of and play the river accordingly.

[Paluka]

[ QUOTE ]
You are getting 11:1, peel one of and play the river accordingly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Against an overpair I only have 2 outs.

[Kailia Marie]

Hi Paluka,

I think reraising the flop is the best of your three options. I actually think folding would be worse than calling here. I don't play this high, but it seems to me from what I've seen and read, short handed high limit poker has a lot of aggressive posturing and I think its way too early to give up on your hand here, which is why I think folding is out of the question.

The turn is interesting because SB didn't cap the flop, yet led on the 3. The turn lead doesn't make any sense really unless he felt he was behind specifically 86; otherwise he'd just cap the flop with AA-99 and A9 and would/should have capped 88, 66 anyways. You said the turn was a 3, was it an offsuit 3 or did it put a flush draw on the board? Perhaps he has Axs, maybe something like A6 with a turned draw?

You're getting 11-1 to call this turn and probably 13-2 to call down. I don't think it'd be wrong to peel here on the turn and see what SB and BB does on the river (plus the chances of spiking an 8 /images/graemlins/grin.gif), especially if SB will freeze up and check the river.

I don't think just giving up on the turn would be bad at all though.

/images/graemlins/heart.gif Kailia

[ggbman]

Since the BB is raising a preflop 3 bettor, i think you can fold the flop. Sometimes he will have something like 97S of A6S and the the button will be bluffing, but in reality, given the action, i think your behind more then enough to make folding correct here. Additionally, play on subsequent streets will be tough with your hand, so i would muck the flop.

[tomahawk]

tough one..

the flop raise by the BB seems like an isolation raise with some sort of weak made hand, maybe A6 or A3, could also be protecting a better 8 than yours. SB's turn bet really looks like an overpair that is now protected from two pair hands by that 3, I doubt that he's stabbing with a big ace given that flop action. Or would he? I only play one quarter of these stakes, so I don't really know how agressive these people are.

Would the BB call preflop with a 6 or 3? would he raise turn if he made trips, or wait to see if you did it? Could SB have something like a big ace or 77, while BB has air or a 6, enough that calling down is profitable? Doesn't seem likely.

The way I see it you are probably behind the SB, and might be behind the BB, so I think I'd give it up and wait for a better spot. I really hate to give up top pair in an aggressive shorthanded game, but here it seems like it needs to be done.

[DrGutshot]

flop is a clear 3bet IMO, they would have a hard time giving you credit for a pair on the board, and they also wont give you credit for an overpair easily.

What do you think of raising the turn and folding to a 3bet? I think I like that line. -checking behind the river if they both call.

calling down wouldn't be too bad either. Folding is pretty bad IMO.

-DrG

[ggbman]

5{is a clear 3bet IMO, they would have a hard time giving you credit for a pair on the board, and they also wont give you credit for an overpair easily.

What do you think of raising the turn and folding to a 3bet? I think I like that line. -checking behind the river if they both call.

calling down wouldn't be too bad either. Folding is pretty bad IMO.

-DrG

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate this line when you can just fold the flop. You dont want to raise the turn, there's no merit. Better hands wont call and worse hands won't pay you off. Seriously, just try to put people on hands here. How often is the button 3 betting preflop and then bluffing this flop with 2 callers and then getting raised by a worse hand then Paulka here? The answer is not very often. It may have been the case here, but i think in general a fold on the flop is in order given the action so far.

[sammyaction3379]

I think its clear you are beaten here. At worst for you, one of your opponents have an overpair. SB probably flopped a set of 66's or A3. the bet on the turn looks like he is trying to trap the big blind whereas a cap on the flop might have chased him away. I think your best move is to dum on the turn. 11-1 isnt good enough to draw to 2 outs.

[gonores]

Ugh. Tough one. I'm inclined to believe SB has 99-JJ here, although one could make an argument that he is holding 77. I don't think even on my best days I could make this laydown....by the turn bet, SB could still be thinking he might be good with any pocket pair here.

[rory]

I have a hard time putting the SB on a hand you can beat. I think it is unlikely he has overcards by the time you have to make your decision on the turn, so he probably has a pocket pair. Now, which one?

Does he really call two more back to him on the flop with 55 or 44 or 22? I doubt it. 77 he might, but you have a 7 which makes that less likely. Other pocket pairs have you crushed.

SB doesn't look like he has an overpair, unless it is AA or maybe KK that he is trying to extract extra value from by trapping the BB in the middle. I think he caps the flop to try to knock out the BB with any other overpair.

So, SBs action looks like a set to me. Betting out into the PFR on the flop might trap the BB for extra bets. He doesn't cap the flop because he wants the BB to stay in since the flop is relatively drawless. He stop and goes the turn to try to trap the BB in the middle again, in case you have an overpair and will raise again on the turn (check-raising would knock out the BB).

So I think you should give up on the turn, especially since the BB might have you beat too. I haven't really put a lot of thought into what he has though.

[tomahawk]

Yeah I was thinking the exact same thing.

Analyzing the hand it seems pretty clear that this is a fold on the turn, but no way I'd be able to make it. MAYBE if I played one table, but that's it.

[Paluka]

I actually think this is an easy turn fold. I have no idea why I was unable to make it.

[sammyaction3379]

What were the results of the hand? How badly were you crushed?

[Paluka]

The sb had TT, the bb had A6.

[tomahawk]

It's kind of reassuring to see, as examplified by this hand, how much you can raise the level of play with just a little thought before acting. Really seems like a call at first sight, but is actually a clear fold.

Interesting hand.. I wonder how often I make the mistake of calling here because I don't think things through properly?

[tpir90036]

I think the turn pairing vs. their ranges drops your equity to somewhere around zero. Make sure the turn is the 5 of diamonds next time.

[Paluka]

I immediately quit after this hand. Running good for a month has made my play sloppy.

[rigoletto]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You are getting 11:1, peel one of and play the river accordingly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Against an overpair I only have 2 outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are absolutely right. Posting good for a while has made me sloppy. I like the fold here.

[adios]

If the SB is a reasonable player he almost can't be bluffing (semi bluffing) when he bets out on the turn IMO.