Stupid Thought/Question

[Schneids]

Near the beginning of a session if there are enough unknowns at the table (edit: say 2+), and I'm playing in a hand against a known player who I perceive as tight or semitight, I'm always willing to make dorky semibluff 3-bets against them while not caring if I get caught or not.

Once I achieve a maniac image I feel like I know how to use it very well.

Is this probable -EV move (the semibluff 3 bet which a lot of the time fails) earning me enough back in future hands against the people who don't know my true game? Do others consider these types of things? I'm talking about for high stakes full and/or short handed tables and beginning of sessions in particular. If you've anything to share about image management/creation I want to know.

[mrkilla]

I would imagine this would work better in B+M then online and as long as your going to be there awhile it should pay off.
IMO I would show down a "maniac" hand every few hours or so to keep the image going.

[JAA]

I definitely use this technique when I play live, especially at levels $20-$40 and up where at least some opponents are somewhat observative. I try to show down some marginal semi-bluff or preflop raise over my first couple of orbits (if I don't caught for a while, that is great /images/graemlins/smile.gif). I have had nights where I get to a showdown with a marginal MP open raise (say like 89s) early in the night and gotten excessive action until I left much much later.

If your image dies, I don't think there is anything wrong with doing it again. I think there are three keys to doing this right: don't go overboard in terms of marginal spots vs. huge dogs, remember to adjust to how your opponents now perceive you (an aside: when I first began doing this I would give people too much respect when they played back at me in later hands, not taking fully into account their new perception of me) and don't overdo it or you really will be the maniac /images/graemlins/cool.gif.

OK now I'm just rambling. I'll end this by noting that I don't focus nearly as much as doing this online as I do live, partially because of the fact that a number of opponents are probably multitabling and may not notice (so you don't gain the EV back later on your -EV "advertising" plays) and they may have PT/PV etc. and know in general what kind of player you are.

I hope at least some of that made sense.

- Jags

[Bartholow]

I still buy in to Mason's old article on image, which suggested that it's better to have a tight image so you can pick up pots. This is because of holdem's structure, in which pots freuqently get big enough that people aren't making huge mistakes calling, but can make big mistakes by folding.

Sorry that I can't remember where this article appears.

[Lawrence Ng]

[ QUOTE ]
Is this probable -EV move (the semibluff 3 bet which a lot of the time fails) earning me enough back in future hands against the people who don't know my true game? Do others consider these types of things? I'm talking about for high stakes full and/or short handed tables and beginning of sessions in particular. If you've anything to share about image management/creation I want to know.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's definite -EV when you don't pick up any hands for the 1st couple of hours.

Lawrence

[bicyclekick]

It really depends on your playing style. I like picking up the pots, while you like battling it out and extracting more money. HU, I want the pot. Multi-way I want action. I guess it depends on the type of game it is. HU, I don't want them putting preasure on me/getting tricky. I just want the damn pot, cause most of the time I dont have anything. In those multi-way pots I want that action typically. Sometimes I'm just trying to protect my hand/win the pot too, but usually I would love for them to call down their stupid bottom pair cause I might be semi-bluffing.

At least that's what I think I want. I could be completely wrong with what I want, but in my mind, that's what i want.

[Schneids]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is this probable -EV move (the semibluff 3 bet which a lot of the time fails) earning me enough back in future hands against the people who don't know my true game? Do others consider these types of things? I'm talking about for high stakes full and/or short handed tables and beginning of sessions in particular. If you've anything to share about image management/creation I want to know.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's definite -EV when you don't pick up any hands for the 1st couple of hours.

Lawrence

[/ QUOTE ]

Well part of the game plan is to run hot and to minimize losses when I don't.

[bicyclekick]

I also agree with lawrence, you really need to be getting cards for this.

[Senor Choppy]

[ QUOTE ]
I also agree with lawrence, you really need to be getting cards for this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's a bad move to sit down, open-raise 98s UTG or whatever, and hope some kind of crazy image materializes.

I never put a lot of effort into image manipulation when playing B&M, but what I tried to do was run with whatever image I had early. If I sat down and got dealt aces when posting in the CO and never had to show them, I'd be more inclined to raise the next hand and maybe establish some kind of young kid that doesn't care about money type image. If the opposite happened and I didn't pick up a hand for a few orbits, I'd start targeting the tight players at the table knowing they'll usually lay down to turn aggression.

Online I'm not sure of the value of this sort of thing against unknowns. People come and go much more frequently, and it's hard to tell whether these players are watching the hand you're in or staring at the baseball game on TV.

[bernie]

I don't try to make them see an image when I first sit in a session. I don't know what their initial image of me is yet. I wait and see what I'm dealing with first in terms of opponents and their tendencies then adjust from there.

You're saying it will turn on a switch and give you this image that will carry with them the whole session. The trick is to keep it up during the session. Which can get expensive. It's not like they won't notice you slowing down all of a sudden.

If you're getting action on your good hands, how much more image do you need? After all, that's what it's about, isn't it?

b

[ggbman]

I think a similar thing can be accomplished by calling down with a marginal hand where an opponent could be drawing, the play itself could have -EV, but you creat a nice table image for yourself.