A very simple stud 8 hand... yay or nay?

[bigredlemon]

7 Card Stud High-Low ($0.5/$1), Ante $0.25, Bring-In $0.25 (hand converter (http://www.geocities.com/greenage22/7StudConverter.hta.txt))

3rd Street

Seat 2: xx xx 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif___calls
Hero: K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___calls
Seat 4: xx xx 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___calls
Seat 6: xx xx Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif___folds
Seat 7: xx xx 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif___brings-in

4th Street

Seat 2: xx xx 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif K/images/graemlins/club.gif___calls
Hero: K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif___checks___folds
Seat 4: xx xx 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 3/images/graemlins/club.gif___checks___calls
Seat 7: xx xx 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif___bets

Is my hand callable for a bring in?
If not, would it be callable if seat 4 had 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif instead of 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif?



4th street fold standard?

on both streets, AK both completely live; only 1 dead diamond

[Beavis68]

I am a noob at this game so I really don't have a clue, but I supsect that due to the high ante, this hand is playable. 4th gives you nothing, so bail.

[B Mando]

I used to fold hands like that but as I have spent more hours playing S8 I feel that its a playable if if you know that you have to catch good on 4th. When I say good I mean a wheel card or a diamond(given the diamonds are live). Its a great stealing hand and plays well in loose games where you know you are going to get action if you keep catching good.

[B Mando]

I didnt even notice that this was the Party ante.

[beset7]

play 1/2 and fold it on 3rd /images/graemlins/grin.gif

with all those low cards showing you are playing for half the pot most of the time unless you catch perfect and I don't like playing a lot of hands that I have to catch perfect with.

Seriously on the ante though, i reccomending playing the .5/1 at stars until you can afford the 1/2 at party. just my opinion tho.

[mscags]

I think that you should play 1-2 first of all, but you may not have the bankroll. Anyway since the ante is obsurdly high I think not only is this hand playable, but pretty decent. I would complete on third and then definitely take one off on fourth. With the giant ante you are almost always getting great odds on any type of drawing hand. You need to get aggressive and get after those antes. With that ante you are almot always getting great odds on just about anything half decent. Hence my point move up or play at stars.

[bholdr]

this hand is definitly playable. i'd even call a completion, maybe even make a raise to take control of the hand... even at 3/6... you definitly want to see fourth- this hand is a big money maker.

At .50/1, many of the players will play razz-type hands with zero scoop potential, which is profitable because of the high ante and family pots but those factors also make any two way hand, esp one like yours, with strong potential both ways, very strong.

there aren't quite enough people in to justify taking one off on fourth, though. what you're looking for, of course, is a low diamond, but i'd be calling if i'd caught any diamond, wheel card, ace, or king.

oh- move up to 1/2 ASAP.

[bigredlemon]

[ QUOTE ]
I think that you should play 1-2 first of all, but you may not have the bankroll. Anyway since the ante is obsurdly high I think not only is this hand playable, but pretty decent. I would complete on third and then definitely take one off on fourth. With the giant ante you are almost always getting great odds on any type of drawing hand. You need to get aggressive and get after those antes. With that ante you are almot always getting great odds on just about anything half decent. Hence my point move up or play at stars.

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the advice everyone.

Mscags, I wasn't sure if it was callable because I've posted HH's of me calling with A2K two suits and was told that was much too loose, and thus wasn't sure that extra flush card made enough of a difference.

As for playing higher limits... I presume only to avoid the high antes? Wouldn't an equally skilled player earn just as BBs per hour, if not more, at a lower limit?

I have the bankroll to go up to 3/6 but don't feel confident enough. I've only become a winning stud player within the last few months. Is staying at $0.5/1 for too long that bad?

[Andy B]

This hand is plenty playable on third. There is a huge difference between a two-suited hand and a one-suited hand. There is a diamond out, which ain't great, but you have two to a wheel and two high cards you can pair. If it's three bets to you or something you might let something like this go, but I'm definitely seeing fourth street for the bring-in, and if I'm feeling frisky, I just might make it a full bet.

The Q/images/graemlins/club.gif wasn't quite what you were looking for, but you might not be up against much. 43 has checked, and 26 was the bring-in. Still, your hand is kinda crappy, so folding can't be far wrong.

[mscags]

IMO the three flush has a lot more value than a two flush not to mention that you have two to a wheel which really adds to the hand. Yeah, I was talking about moving up to get away from the ante. I used to play at Pacific and they used the same ante structure and I found that it was really difficult to play. I couldn't understand why I would kill some days and get killed others. Eventually I realized that part of it was that if I was catching good starting hands I was doing great because the pots in proportion to the stakes are huge (bc of the antes) but if I was in a dry streak the antes were actually killing me. Think of it this way. Would you want to play holdem and throw in a small blind everyhand? This would dramatically reduce your win rate if you kept to your usual TAG. You have to adjust to it by playing a lot more hands. Anyway, I decided I didn't want to play Stud as a crap shoot so I waited for the bankroll and moved up. There is nothing wrong with playing the limit, but in my experience I found it very hard to learn the game and stay in the positive range while playing tag. Poker Stars has a good ante structure on just about all of their games if you don't mind opening up an account with them. Well I'm done rambling. Hope this has helped some.
Scags

[Andy B]

I actually don't like the ante structure on Stars. I think it's too low at $3/6 and below. At $5/10 and up, it's standard. Still, it's a lot better than Party's $.50/1.00 game.

[mscags]

What site do you think has the best structure for low limit?

[Andy B]

Of the sites I've played on, Full Tilt. Party's antes are too high, Stars' too low, and Paradise's way too low. That said, I do most of my playing on Stars.

[bigredlemon]

[ QUOTE ]
IMO the three flush has a lot more value than a two flush not to mention that you have two to a wheel which really adds to the hand. Yeah, I was talking about moving up to get away from the ante. I used to play at Pacific and they used the same ante structure and I found that it was really difficult to play. I couldn't understand why I would kill some days and get killed others. Eventually I realized that part of it was that if I was catching good starting hands I was doing great because the pots in proportion to the stakes are huge (bc of the antes) but if I was in a dry streak the antes were actually killing me. Think of it this way. Would you want to play holdem and throw in a small blind everyhand? This would dramatically reduce your win rate if you kept to your usual TAG. You have to adjust to it by playing a lot more hands. Anyway, I decided I didn't want to play Stud as a crap shoot so I waited for the bankroll and moved up. There is nothing wrong with playing the limit, but in my experience I found it very hard to learn the game and stay in the positive range while playing tag. Poker Stars has a good ante structure on just about all of their games if you don't mind opening up an account with them. Well I'm done rambling. Hope this has helped some.
Scags

[/ QUOTE ]But it could go the other way as well. I just finished a night where everyone one hitting their one outers on me. If it had been 1/2, i would have easily been cleaned for twice as much.

[Bill Murphy]

You know my feelings about dead steel wheel cards. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif