4 Straight and low against a huge field

[mscags]

Is this an obvious play or am I missing something?

7 Card Stud High-Low ($3/$6), Ante $0.5 (hand converter (http://www.geocities.com/greenage22/7StudConverter.hta.txt))

3rd Street

Seat 2: xx xx 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif___calls
Seat 3: xx xx J/images/graemlins/heart.gif___calls
Seat 4: xx xx 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___calls
Seat 5: xx xx Q/images/graemlins/club.gif___folds
Hero: 5/images/graemlins/club.gif 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif___calls
Seat 7: xx xx 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___bets

4th Street

Seat 2: xx xx 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif 9/images/graemlins/club.gif___checks___folds
Seat 3: xx xx J/images/graemlins/heart.gif T/images/graemlins/heart.gif___bets___raises___calls
Seat 4: xx xx 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___calls___calls___calls
Hero: 5/images/graemlins/club.gif 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif___raises___raises
Seat 7: xx xx 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif___checks___calls___folds
Seat 8: xx xx 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif___checks___calls___calls

5th Street

Seat 3: xx xx J/images/graemlins/heart.gif T/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/heart.gif___bets___raises
Seat 4: xx xx 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif T/images/graemlins/spade.gif___folds
Hero: 5/images/graemlins/club.gif 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___calls___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif___raises___calls (all-in)

6th Street

Seat 3: xx xx J/images/graemlins/heart.gif T/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/heart.gif Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif___bets
Hero: 5/images/graemlins/club.gif 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 8/images/graemlins/club.gif___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif___all-in

River

Seat 3: xx xx J/images/graemlins/heart.gif T/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/heart.gif Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif xx___bets
Hero: 5/images/graemlins/club.gif 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 8/images/graemlins/club.gif 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif xx___all-in

[jon_1van]

First let me say ::

"I suck so bad at this game"

I raise 3rd.
4th goot
5th goot (?)
6th raise you have a board lock for low and the rake is probably maxed already
7th I guess technically you could raise here...but whatever

[Andy B]

I probably raise third. Fourth you jam, of course. Calling on fifth is fine. I see no reason not to raise on sixth, or seventh for that matter.

[Hauser_III]

Seat 8 brought in for the full bet, it looks like, so he "should" have had a premium low, trips or a buried big pair. By the time he calls 3 on 4th, he's so pot-committed with his short stack that he's not going anywhere on 5th, whether you raise or just call. If he started with the premium low, called 3 on 4th after catching a Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif, and then raised with that strong Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif on 5th, and then filled his 8-low on 7th to beat you, well, there's not much you could have done about it. Did he at least have two spades underneath when he started?

Why no raise on 6th? You're freewheeling against seat 3, and could scoop the side pot if you hit the 2 or 7. Yes, he looks like a lock for a flush, or a broadway, but as long as the rake had already been capped, raise it up and see if he's betting board strength with 2 pair, rather than a made flush.

[AlmightyJay]

[ QUOTE ]
I probably raise third. Fourth you jam, of course. Calling on fifth is fine. I see no reason not to raise on sixth, or seventh for that matter.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bear with me, I'm REALLY new to this game. But why raise 6th or 7th? You're obviously splitting this pot. You're not scooping. Since seat 8 is all-in, there's no dead money being added. Every bet you put in on 6th and 7th you're going to get back minus rake. Aren't they -EV raises?

[jon_1van]

1. The rake is already capped
2. The raises you are putting in are only against the guy who CANNOT make a low
3. There is a freak chance that this guy doesn't have the straight or the flush and you make the low straight to scoop

[AlmightyJay]

[ QUOTE ]
1. The rake is already capped
2. The raises you are putting in are only against the guy who CANNOT make a low
3. There is a freak chance that this guy doesn't have the straight or the flush and you make the low straight to scoop

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok I see this, but isn't there also a freak chance that Seat 8 rivers a better low than you, and you lose the whole pot?

I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just trying to figure out why I can't conceptualize raising 6th and 7th as being anything but neutral or negative EV.

[jon_1van]

that guy is already all-in so the sidepot you are building is only against Mr. Straightflush.

if that guy wasn't allin jammin would be retarded

[mscags]

Seat 8 did hit runner runner for a better low and took my half. I got back what I put in when I was heads up /images/graemlins/frown.gif