fancy or good?

[cold_cash]

I've only got a couple orbits against this opponent so I don't have a super good read, but he seems more aggressive than your typical unknown.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif. MP1 posts a blind of $2.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 (poster) checks, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls.

Flop: (5.50 SB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP1 calls.

Turn: (3.75 BB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP1 checks, Hero checks.

River: (3.75 BB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 5.75 BB

[chief444]

I don't think the turn check is bad. I'd usually just bet though. Being HU he'll pay off with a lot here.

Why didn't you raise the river?

[Schwartzy61]

When the board pairs, the likelihood of that guy holding that particular card has decreased and the fact that he is "more" aggressive than the average unknown and might raise TP on the flop, I would probably bet the turn when checked to, and then call or bet the river. I tend to be rather aggressive with an overpair unless there is a straight/flush potential on board or somebody plays back at me. I'm probably betting this the whole way until he makes a stand.

The way you played it, checking the turn probably made him think you bet overcards like AK on the flop. Thinking this he probably bets out on the river with any part of the board. I would raise here...

[Fat Nicky]

I'd just bet the turn. With no read, you can't be sure he will bet the river for you.

[Ten7offsuit]

I think you need to raise the river if you check this turn.

[billyjex]

bet
the
turn

[NickRegino]

Bet the turn

[jason_t]

Do you like money? Then bet the turn. Checking here is so weak.

[thejameser]

[ QUOTE ]
Bet the turn

[/ QUOTE ]

[cold_cash]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you like money? Then bet the turn. Checking here is so weak.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you think I checked because I thought I was losing?

[brettbrettr]

I dont' get it. If you were trying to get him to bet the river why aren't you raising? This seems much more fancy than good. I don't get it.

[cold_cash]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think the turn check is bad. I'd usually just bet though. Being HU he'll pay off with a lot here.

Why didn't you raise the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't raise the river because I didn't expect him to call with too many worse hands. Plus if he does happen to have a Queen he'll just raise. I dunno though. A raise might have been correct.

[billyjex]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do you like money? Then bet the turn. Checking here is so weak.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you think I checked because I thought I was losing?

[/ QUOTE ]

way too fancy. you're playing 2/4, not 15/30.

[cold_cash]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do you like money? Then bet the turn. Checking here is so weak.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you think I checked because I thought I was losing?

[/ QUOTE ]

way too fancy. you're playing 2/4, not 15/30.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really don't see what that has to do with it.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do you like money? Then bet the turn. Checking here is so weak.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you think I checked because I thought I was losing?

[/ QUOTE ]

I certainly hope you weren't checking hoping to induce a bluff on the river. You'll make more money in the long run by just betting the god dam[/i]ned turn.

[cold_cash]

If he has a crappy bluffing hand he'll probably fold if I bet the turn or raise the river.

If he has a Queen he'll check-raise the turn or 3-bet the river.

[cold_cash]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do you like money? Then bet the turn. Checking here is so weak.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you think I checked because I thought I was losing?

[/ QUOTE ]

I certainly hope you weren't checking hoping to induce a bluff on the river. You'll make more money in the long run by just betting the god dam[/i]ned turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

You know what dude? [censored] you.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]


You know what dude? [censored] you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sigh.

[chief444]

I was thinking you could probably fold to a 3-bet. But even if you call I think raise/call is better than just call.

My other thought is someone who sits and posts in MP1 is more than likely paying off a raise with a lot here, especially after your seemingly unusual turn check.

[meep_42]

I'm really fine with this, if you're fine losing the pot to some crappy ace on the river.

I'd bet the turn and call down a check-raise most of the time, though.

-d

[Entity]

Hey Cash,

There are dudes that I'm going to use this line against, but sans read, I'm betting the turn and probably paying off a checkraise.

I really don't get the idea of inducing a bluff that you can raise on the river, though. That's just dumb. If you're checking the turn to induce, calling the river is correct.

Rob

[cold_cash]

[ QUOTE ]
I was thinking you could probably fold to a 3-bet. But even if you call I think raise/call is better than just call.

My other thought is someone who sits and posts in MP1 is more than likely paying off a raise with a lot here, especially after your seemingly unusual turn check.

[/ QUOTE ]

He actually left the table for a quick second and then hopped into another seat, which I think is why he posted there. He had been playing for awhile but decided to move I guess.

I'm torn on the river. It seems if I raise and he 3-bets I'm only good a very small percentage of the time, so calling it down doesn't seem right.

I also figured if he totally missed or had bottom pair or the like he wouldn't pay it off anyway.

[chief444]

Entity,

It's 2/4 heads up against an MP1 poster. I think pretty much any pair is paying off the river raise. It's not always a bluff. And on a Q62 rainbow board it's likely some smaller pair. Hell, I think A-high pays off some in this situation. Just my opinion. But I admit that just calling isn't a huge mistake if at all. But considering the situation it seems to me a raise is good here.

Chief

[cold_cash]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey Cash,

There are dudes that I'm going to use this line against, but sans read, I'm betting the turn and probably paying off a checkraise.

I really don't get the idea of inducing a bluff that you can raise on the river, though. That's just dumb. If you're checking the turn to induce, calling the river is correct.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what I thought about the river play also, but apparently it's incorrect.

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
Entity,

It's 2/4 heads up against an MP1 poster. I think pretty much any pair is paying off the river raise. It's not always a bluff. And on a Q62 rainbow board it's likely some smaller pair. Hell, I think A-high pays off some in this situation. Just my opinion. But I admit that just calling isn't a huge mistake if at all. But considering the situation it seems to me a raise is good here.

Chief

[/ QUOTE ]

Chief,

If the sort of player you're inducing a bluff against will pay off with Ace-high, you're better off just betting the turn and the river.

Rob

[cold_cash]

I forgot to put up the results.

He had AT, and MHIG.

[chief444]

[ QUOTE ]
If the sort of player you're inducing a bluff against will pay off with Ace-high, you're better off just betting the turn and the river.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah I couldn't agree more. So I guess I xxxxed up assuming that MP1 was that loose because cold cash wouldn't likely use this line against someone who would still call the turn with any piece. So I agree that either betting the turn or calling the river are best. And since any 5 outers just became 2 outers this line seems OK against someone tight enough to fold the turn with a 2,6 or pocket pair with this small of a pot, especially if cash felt he would have to call down to a turn check/raise.

I just see 2/4 and MP1 poster and make some assumptions that may not always be true.

[Nate tha' Great]

Bet this turn and call down a check-raise. No other way to play it. Hell, I'm almost happy when he check-raises since it's going to be some stupid bluff so often.

[Catt]

[ QUOTE ]
There are dudes that I'm going to use this line against, but sans read, I'm betting the turn and probably paying off a checkraise.

I really don't get the idea of inducing a bluff that you can raise on the river, though. That's just dumb. If you're checking the turn to induce, calling the river is correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with all that Entity said, and in particular the last bit that I bolded.