party $100 NL... what's your move?

[unlucky513]

table is loose, full of bad players. villain in this hand is UTG+2, i'm UTG.

i pick up AKo (suits not important) and raise to $4, UTG+2 makes it $9 to go, folded around to me, i call.

($~19)flop is K 2 7 (suits not important)

i check, villain checks.

turn (~$39) is a brick. i bet $10, quick call from villain.

river is a Q. i bet $15, villain pushes his remaining $60ish into the pot.

whats your move?

[Ghazban]

Fold, he has AA or QQ.

[davedave]

WHy aren't suits important? Unless it's a rainbow. SPecify if it's a rainbow, b/c suits are always important!

Second of all, define "brick"! It still has some bearing! If it's 7 8 9, most likely he hit a set. Ppl re-raise middle pp's a lot.

Third of all, you shouldn't have slowplayed the High pair. Why? because you tell your opponent you have the K's. The opponent knows, and most likely, when that Q came up, won't raise, "knowing" you have high pair. If he raises, your uncertainty is a little lessened, b/c you can be more sure that he can beat Kings.

By slowplaying, you have caused more confusion and less certainty, and less positive expectation.


Here, you deposited 9 + 10 + 15 + potentially 45.
If he re=raised you preflop, most likely he has a monster. KK, AA, like i said you need to know the "brick" b/c that could be a pp if it was high enough.

Your A K will hold up against QK,JK,10K,etc.
Do you think he would re-raise that preflop???? no.

Your odds have decreased.

If you raised after the flop, he would either call, or re-raise. If he called, most likely you can check the turn, and raise the river.
If he re-raised, you have questions. HOw much did he re-raise?

But you lose less money, b/c you have info more earlier. Your "range of uncertainty" decreases earlier on.

MY ANSWER IS: you played it incorrectly, and i would not know what to do, b/c of this.
A. I would raise on the flop.
A.1.If he called, i'd raise again on the turn.
A.1.a. If he re-raised the turn, i'd call and hope he didn't bet the river, b/c he could have 2-pair or the set.
A.1.b. If he called the turn, he's on a draw, and i'd see the river

A.2. If he re-raised the flop, i'd call if it wasn't too big or an all-in. I have my hand still.

BASICALLY YOU HAVE TO RAISE THE FLOP IN THAT SITUATION. only time for slowplay is when you want a free card, or you have the hand PAT. (str8, flush or higher). Even sets are dangerous to slowplay if there is a low kicker, or str8 or flush draw on the board. WIth 2 cards to come, High pair should not be slowplayed that slowly.

[swolfe]

i lead the flop for $15 100% of the time.

as played, fold. anything he reraises with preflop (other than AK) has you beat.

[unlucky513]

if the suits were important, i would have put them on here. if the brick on the turn were important, i wouldn't have called it a brick.

i wasn't slowplaying my top pair. there was a good chance that he had me smashed after the flop, as most re-raises are w/ AK, AA, KK, QQ.

when he checked the flop, i knew it was QQ. when the queen came on the river i knew i was behind... just wanted to see if others thought it was obvious as i did.

[Gustavo]

well , seems like a QQ indeed, IMO if you had lead the FLOP , Turn , probably this pot would never reach the river.

[davedave]

well, you just proved to yourself that you made a bad move slowplaying it. YOu would've won the hand!!!!
Instead you lost 4x more.

Your reasoning as to why you "slowplayed" it is dumb. Think of the odds. AA, KK, QQ all deserve re-raises... maybe JJ.
So out of those hands, you beat 2. 2 out of 3 = 66% in your favor. Now, after a flop of ANYTHING, if you bet the same amount consistently, then eventually you'd get 5 to 3 return on your money, since AK will beat KK QQ outright. 75% (3 to 1) if you think they'll re-raise the JJ pre-flop. AK and hitting top pair, you can't wuss out on that one man. SERIOUSLY. As a poker buddy, you can't play soft. YOU HAVE THE ODDS with AK suited, and with top pair Ace kicker!!!!

i think my math is off, give or take variation (stupid hands ppl play) but you get the idea?

[hfrog355]

Agreed, you played the flop and turn very poorly. You had the best hand and let him catch what was most likely 1 of 2 cards in the whole deck that helped him. Bet the flop hard, and then bet the turn much harder. Make him pay to suck out on you.

[unlucky513]

i didn't slowplay it. i didn't know if my hand was any good. remember... i raised UNDER THE GUN, and was instantly re-raised. that means AA/KK a lot of the time.

[davedave]

read my last post. You played it badly, even if he did have AA. Read my post to see why. AND IF YOU WANT ADVICE, LISTEN FOR ONCE! JEEZ YOU PROTESTING EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!!

you played it horribly. There. That's my advice. Don't argue, b/c you played it horribly. That's honesty. If youdont want honesty, then don't post.

[unlucky513]

what i do want is advice. what i don't want is advice from idiots like you who make absolutely no sense.

[swolfe]

[ QUOTE ]
*** You are ignoring this user ***

[/ QUOTE ]

nope, not too early.

[PinkSteel]

Please please please tell me how. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I checked Config, Address Book / Ignore List, but I can't seem to find the option that lets me add to my (currently empty) list....

[sourbeaver]

I probably alternate between leading the flop for 12-15 and checking, depending on read (mostly PFR of villain, tendency to reraise).

Once you check, the turn bet of 10$ isn't bringing in any info, because now QQ will mostly likely call, as would AA being careful of KKK (edit: if he's the one on KKK, he would definitely call here as to let you bet the river).

River fold is mandatory for reasons already stated by others.

[swolfe]

[ QUOTE ]
Please please please tell me how. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I checked Config, Address Book / Ignore List, but I can't seem to find the option that lets me add to my (currently empty) list....

[/ QUOTE ]

click on his name, then at the bottom of the info is a "Ignore this user" link.

See if this (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/toggleignore.php?Cat=&User=34129&Board=ssplnlpoker &Number=2296653&what=showflat&page=0&view=collapse d&sb=5&o=14) works...

[PinkSteel]

"You so totally rock, squirt!" /images/graemlins/grin.gif Thanks....

[tripdad]

[ QUOTE ]
i didn't slowplay it. i didn't know if my hand was any good.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is why you need to make a bet. the only way to get info from another player online is by their betting/raising patterns. bet the flop. bet the turn. check the river and call a sucker bet if it gets to that point.

good day!

[Chicago Kid]

[ QUOTE ]
i didn't slowplay it. i didn't know if my hand was any good.

[/ QUOTE ]

This begs the question, then, why you called pre-flop. What would you have hit that would keep you around, with the exception of AA KK or TJQ?

If you're convinced that only AA KK QQ would re-raise, then you had to figure you were behind without many draws, and a fold would have been correct.

[Chicago Kid]

But, to answer your question, after playing it as you did, I'd muck. Quickly.

[swolfe]

[ QUOTE ]
This begs the question, then, why you called pre-flop. What would you have hit that would keep you around, with the exception of AA KK or TJQ?

If you're convinced that only AA KK QQ would re-raise, then you had to figure you were behind without many draws, and a fold would have been correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is good advice. if this was a tight raiser, a fold would probably be the best play.

[KowCiller]

I don't hate the check. You're either crushed or he's drawing to two outs. The bet on the turn accomplishes more than the flop bet would have. Villian would have likely smooth called many flop bets with a hand that crushes hero. On the turn you made tons of sklansky bucks from Villain thinking his queens are good. As long as you didn't lose your stack to Villian's river push, you didn't really lose out on much.

I think too often people blow opponents out of the water when they are drawing to 2-5 outs. By delaying until the turn I think you can keep the pot relatively small and give yourself a chance to get away from it (or give Villian false hope). Just don't go to the felt in this spot and you're ok.

Edit: As others mentioned, I'm also for folding this preflop btw if Villian's re-raising hands are limited to AA-QQ.
KoW

[davedave]

plain and simple. don't respond b/c i just used profanity , so i'll probably be banned soon.

fuckfacce

[sourbeaver]

i win.

Moderator(s) notified In a moment you will be automatically returned to the forum.

[KowCiller]

haha.. awesome.

KoW

[NickPoker]

Preflop: Good

Flop: Bet pot - You will find out where you are at and there is a good chance you are ahead.

Turn: Assuming checked flop - Again bet the pot - You are probably ahead, if you are not you will find out here. Other option is to check, weak bet is the worst choice.

River (after the way you played it): Check, hands that you are beating aren't going to call. I call value sized bet, fold to big bet.

Your biggest mistake was not betting the flop. If you truly think there is a good chance you are behind, then check call it down. You decided to go somewhere in the middle which is the worst option because now you can loose a lot of money to a better hand and a weaker hand will sense weakness and make you lay it down.