I'm not a nit

[jason_t]

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: I am BB with 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB completes, <font color="#CC3333">I raise</font>, MP1 calls, SB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">I bet</font>, MP1 calls, SB folds.

Turn: (4 BB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">I bet</font>, MP1 calls.

River: (6 BB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">I bet</font>....

[Fnord]

Got read?

If one or both of these guys like to take their hands all the way in small pots, I'd rather check behind pre-flop and play set in a small pot. If they are capable of folding to aggression I like this line. Also, consider what range these guys are limping. A Tight/Passive might take a bigger PP to showdown here or be limping a hand that will give you trouble.

This play and the spots it will put you in is all about the other guys and without reads I don't like it.

[chief444]

Looks pretty standard to me.

[Chris Dow]

I don't think the raise preflop is mandatory. After that the hand plays itself.

[chief444]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think the raise preflop is mandatory. After that the hand plays itself.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I agree Chris. I usually would though. But postflop is really what I meant was standard. Preflop I usually don't even comment on unless asked since anyone playing 3/6 or above should be good preflop.

[27offsooot]

[ QUOTE ]
Looks pretty standard to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is there any merit to just checking PF and then leading most flops. With a small pp here, i'm not really playing this for a set, but I do want to keep the pot small so i can steal it pretty easily post flop. With decent paint cards, I almost always raise one limper and the sb out of the bb, so I don't really know why I don't do this with small pp.

[Fnord]

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop I usually don't even comment on unless asked since anyone playing 3/6 or above should be good preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Same here, but I think pre-flop really sets up the hand.

Am I too weak not wanting to spew chips out of position into an unknown who just open-limped from MP with a pair of fives or just pragmatic?

[Chris Dow]

Yeah, I wasn't even replying to you in particular chief, you're just the box I happened to click, just wanted to throw out that it is ok not to raise here.

[Chris Dow]

Fnord,

The advantage to check preflop is: You don't have to lead every flop. When you lead into favorable flops you offer your opponents much worse odds to draw. When you flop a set no one can understand how you could be so strong.

[Fnord]

Agreed

[chief444]

Yeah, see my reply to Chris. Although since we're talking preflop now I do like raising it here also. My opinion here is a raise preflop actually helps you take it down on more flops. I guess it depends a lot on the opponents though and whether they are even aware of pot sizes.

[ErrantNight]

[ QUOTE ]
Fnord,

The advantage to check preflop is: You don't have to lead every flop. When you lead into favorable flops you offer your opponents much worse odds to draw. When you flop a set no one can understand how you could be so strong.

[/ QUOTE ]


I disagree wholeheartedly. Raising disguises your hand much better. Particularly if you hit a set.

I'm not saying there aren't advantages to checking preflop... but deception when you hit a set just isn't one of them. At all.

[Chris Dow]

Yeah definitely, the advantages to raise are: You punish both of them heavily. The limper can often have ace with kicker less than 5 and the sb has some q8o crap. You're getting a lot of value out of showing strength early vs their hands which unless they get slaughtered by the flop won't turn into very strong holdings. You get to take the lead and drag a 2x juicier pot on the flop. I estimate that you take it down like 80% of the time you would take it down without raising preflop and the pot is 2x! Also, now when you hit your set you get to lead and an opponent can get dumb with top pair and try to throw in a raise somewhere which makes you 2 more bets on that street. The PP in the blinds is definitely a spot where I vary liberally. I'll typically use it to control my table image, if I want to look more aggressive I'll raise, been too aggressive than I'm certainly going to check. Opponents matter too, but right now for me at 2/4 predominantly the opponents are almost all the same so I just vary based on controlling my table image.

[Chris Dow]

Is this because you are assuming your opponents will think deeply enough to recognize that you are the BB and therefore can have all the random 2 pair holdings? Just curious.

[crunchy1]

Raising disguises your hand more because most SS players would never envision that you could possibly raise with such a "weak" hand. Therefore when the flop comes low and you've hit your set they'll put you on overcards/overpair. You'll get lots of action from hands where they make two pair and a decent amount of action from their one pair hands as well.

[ErrantNight]

no... it's because nothing screams set quite like limping/calling and then going to town on non-threatening boards...

donks, except, perhaps, for maniac lags, don't raise nor expect you to be raising your small pairs preflop. therefore, by raising, your hand is disguised.

[jason_t]

River: (6 BB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">I bet</font>, MP1 folds.

Final Pot: 7 BB

Results:
I have 5d 5h (one pair, fives).
Outcome: I win 7 BB.

[ErrantNight]

at least you played this one well /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
at least you played this one well /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

That was my question. I won the hand, but did I play it correctly? It's so lovely to hear "yes." /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ErrantNight]

i didn't say "yes"


yes




NOW i've said "yes"

before i just used words that MEANT yes.

[Steve S]

I don't like the bet on the river. What hand do you get called by that doesn't beat you? I'd check/call the river...maybe inducing a bluff if MP picked up a draw and missed.

[meep_42]

I'm really thinking about the river -- the best I think you can hope for is if Villain will fold a bigger PP, which really only includes 66 or a weak-played 99. No draws that paired up aren't calling, only A2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif or an A3 who hopes you're bluffing are calling the river and don't beat you.

I think you may be better off letting 56 or A2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif or whatnot take a stab at this, as I don't think there's a whole lot of value in a bet.

Maybe that's a little weak, but I'm having trouble seeing a better hand folding on this board.

-d

[Yobz]

I like the river bet, easy fold to a raise and he might fold a 7 (or a rivered 8), plus it might be for value if he calls with AT or KQ or other trash (depending on how much of a nut he is).

[Yads]

I check call the river.

[Steve S]

[ QUOTE ]
he might fold a 7 (or a rivered 8)

[/ QUOTE ]

The hand in question is the Party 3/6 right?

[meep_42]

Villain is about never folding a 7 or 8.

-d