20/40, inside str8 draw

[McOink]

I'm new to this forum so please bear with me and my first hand posting. Here's a hand from 9-handed 20/40 (northern California card club). Table play has been pretty solid except for players noted below. 3-betting preflop is pretty unusual.

UTG limps (always limps with any Ace, suited cards, or connected cards), 2 folds, MP 2-bets (loose raiser), 2 folds, Button (Hero with AQs) 3-bets, SB/BB/UTG/MP all call. $300 pot.

Flop is JT4 rainbow. 3 checks, MP bets, Hero calls, SB, BB, and UTG all call. This is highly unusual in that myself, SB, and BB are typically very aggressive post-flop. Pot is now $400.

Should I have raised here? With 2 overcards and an inside straight draw (and I raised preflop), I probably shoud raise to continue representing a strong hand. But MP's bet confuses me as I was the one to 3-bet preflop. So I just call but am not sure what to do if it's raised (thankfully, it wasn't). If I don't hit a King, I'm in serious trouble. If there are any Aces left, I could be dead to someone with AK. And a Queen is questionable since it completes a straight draw or gives someone with QJ two pair.

Turn is Deuce. 3 checks, MP bets, Hero calls, SB, BB, UTG all call. Wow - I can't believe no one is raising. Pot is now $600.

I'll post what happened at the River later. It's pretty obvious what happens if a King hits. But is it an automatic fold to any bet if a blank hits? I don't think a raiser folds to a re-raise at this point. What if it's checked around to me?

Any feedback is much appreciated. Is this hand even interesting? Thanks

[NLSoldier]

Looks pretty normal so far. I think your play is fine. You could consider raising the flop in hopes of buying a free card, but I dont think you would clean up any outs with a raise, and you would open yourself to a 3bet from a set or AJ which your are drawing pretty slim against. So I think calling and letting the blinds continue to come along is best.

[onegymrat]

Hi McOink,

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3-betting preflop is pretty unusual.

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I like the effort there, being that you're on the button, but I like calling better. You have a limper in already, and if the blinds are not too tight AND they are also aware of MP's loose raising standards, the chance to isolate makes in more difficult to play.
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MP bets...Should I have raised here?...But MP's bet confuses me as I was the one to 3-bet preflop.

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No, calling is better now. If you would have only called preflop, then raising is better. Being that you 3-bet preflop (which is rare as you have stated) AND he bet into you on the flop, I think he flopped a monster. He is most likely waiting for you to raise so he can 3-bet.
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But is it an automatic fold to any bet if a blank hits?

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Yes, I don't see how you even have a chance to win with 3 other players with a JT board.
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Is this hand even interesting?

[/ QUOTE ] Yes!

Good luck!

[bernie]

Preflop: Fine

I'd have raised either the flop or turn. Did you have a b-door flushdraw possible too?

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I'll post what happened at the River later. It's pretty obvious what happens if a King hits.

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You think it's an auto-raise if bet into by the MP again?

b

[McOink]

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I'd have raised either the flop or turn. Did you have a b-door flushdraw possible too?

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Raising the turn is scary since I could get popped back (as NLsoldier points out). If I'm MP and had flopped a set with that board, I would bet into the preflop raiser and hope he raises to get the blinds and UTG out. This may not be an optimal play but I prefer to try and get as many players out when a pot is this size.

My backdoor flush draw at the flop wasn't helped at turn. So I need that King at the river.


[ QUOTE ]
It's pretty obvious what happens if a King hits.

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You think it's an auto-raise if bet into by the MP again?

[/ QUOTE ]
Good point. If King hits and MP bets, I think it's a coin toss in calling or raising. I figure two people are waiting for an Ace. So they're not even calling one bet. Someone with AK might call 2 bets. So raising MIGHT(?) get AK to call and MP should call (for perhaps 3 more bets). Calling might get AK to call but not sure who else? Maybe someone with KJ/KT? So calling gets perhaps 2 more bets?

Now that I've wrote it out, if there was a KJ/KT, they are probably calling a re-raise. So that makes me think re-raising a river King is the best play.

[bernie]

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If I'm MP and had flopped a set with that board, I would bet into the preflop raiser and hope he raises to get the blinds and UTG out.

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MP 2-bets (loose raiser),

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All of a sudden MP is a tighter raiser? Someone has to have a set?

Also, don't project your thoughts onto them thinking they think this way. Most don't. Simply watch how they play sets.

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My backdoor flush draw at the flop wasn't helped at turn. So I need that King at the river.



[/ QUOTE ]

It's nice to know you had that on the flop.

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Maybe someone with KJ/KT? So calling gets perhaps 2 more bets?


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Flop is JT4 rainbow. 3 checks, MP bets, Hero calls, SB, BB, and UTG all call. This is highly unusual in that myself, SB, and BB are typically very aggressive post-flop

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They don't have KJ. You'd have heard from them by now given the above description

b

[McOink]

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All of a sudden MP is a tighter raiser? Someone has to have a set?

Also, don't project your thoughts onto them thinking they think this way. Most don't. Simply watch how they play sets.

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[ QUOTE ]
They don't have KJ. You'd have heard from them by now given the above description

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks, Bernie. You're absolutely right. This isn't what I was thinking during the hand. It's easy to overanalyze afterwards (and I obviously didn't overanalyze well).

I basically figured at least one person had a strong hand and was slowplaying it to get more calls. That's the main reason I didn't reraise at flop or turn. I wanted to see turn and river as cheaply as possible on my hail mary draw.

As far as what happens at river if King hits and MP bets: that didn't happen so I can't tell you what went through my mind at the moment. If this situation were to happen, I think I'd still re-raise. The MP should call and if just one other person calls, then I collect 3 big bets. Not sure what just calling will gain.

Here's what happened:
River King. Everyone checks to me. I bet. BB calls and everyone else folds. The only person who looks disgusted is BB and I'm pretty sure she was slowplaying 2 pair or a set. MP must have had garbage b/c he would have whined otherwise.

[bernie]

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I basically figured at least one person had a strong hand and was slowplaying it to get more calls

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Again, based on what?

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If this situation were to happen, I think I'd still re-raise. The MP should call and if just one other person calls, then I collect 3 big bets. Not sure what just calling will gain.


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You have 3 people behind you. It depends on your read as to whether you think they'll call 1 bet or 2. You know you can likely collect 1 more from the bettor. So that's the number you're looking to beat. The question is, will they call 2 cold on the river? If not, will they call 1. They're more likely to call 1. If only 1 guy calls behind you, it's a wash if you raise and only the bettor calls. With 3 guys calling all the way, if you think 2/3 of them will call, I'd go for the overcalls. However, if they are loose enough that they'd call 2 cold...

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The only person who looks disgusted is BB and I'm pretty sure she was slowplaying 2 pair or a set.

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He looks disgusted because he should've paid more on this hand if he had his head out of his ass if he held either of these. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

b

[Jeffage]

Raise the flop...The pot is large, you might clean up some outs and/or get a free card. Also, the hand won't be such a guessing game and will be easier to play.

Jeff