SO I went against the flow here

[stupidsucker]

***** Hand History for Game 1984159348 *****
15/30 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 11825398) - Sun May 01 18:49:26 EDT 2005
Table Table 14975 (Real Money) -- Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: donniethec (1095)
Seat 2: upside100 (900)
Seat 3: rosey42003 (725)
Seat 4: The_Deke (490)
Seat 5: Moose_Man420 (685)
Seat 6: Seat11 (785)
Seat 7: El_Pea (770)
Seat 8: SullySox (910)
Seat 9: harryassman (850)
Seat 10: TheDel (790)
Seat11 posts small blind (10)
El_Pea posts big blind (15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Seat11 [ Kc, Kh ]
SullySox folds.
harryassman calls (15)
TheDel folds.
donniethec folds.
upside100 raises (40) to 40
rosey42003 folds.
The_Deke folds.
Moose_Man420 calls (40)
Seat11 raises (55) to 65
El_Pea folds.
harryassman folds.
upside100 raises (85) to 125
Moose_Man420 calls (85)
Seat11 raises (235) to 300
upside100 raises (375) to 500
Moose_Man420 raises (560) to 685
Moose_Man420 is all-In.
<font color="red">Seat11 folds. </font>
upside100 calls (185)
Creating Main Pot with $1700 with Moose_Man420
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 8h, 6s, As ]
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 6d ]
** Dealing River ** : [ Qd ]
** Summary **
Main Pot: 1700 |
Board: [ 8h 6s As 6d Qd ]

[Apathy]

Why the tiny reraise with KK? You are offering excellent odds and are very lucky that you got reraised or you might have paid for it.

Do you know these players well? Unless I knew both of them could only have AA or KK I would call, no way I lay this down, even with the ridiculous min reraising action.

[gumpzilla]

I don't particularly like it. I think a lot of fishy types can pull a MooseMan with holdings other than AA; it's very possible that he wants to see a flop with AJ and realizes it's going to cost him all of his chips, and so he goes ahead and puts them in here.

Given that you posted this, obviously he had AA, but I don't think that proves much.

[stupidsucker]

My first min raise was a mistake based on 8tabling.

the second one however was intentional. I stopped and thought to msyelf... I really really think someone has AA. I figured what the hell, so what if I am wrong. I decided quickly to go on the first impulse and I folded and went ohhhh no what have I done.

He did have AA, I decided to post this the moment I folded.

Notice i didnt post results...

[gumpzilla]

Of course you didn't post results, but come on. Are you posting this if he flips over AK? Doubtful. It was painfully obvious from the title to the presentation that this was supposed to be a "Look at me! I laid down KK to AA PF!" post.

[stupidsucker]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you posting this if he flips over AK? Doubtful.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes. If you look at the board you will see that I would have lost with KK to AK as well.

[ QUOTE ]
Doubtful. It was painfully obvious from the title to the presentation that this was supposed to be a "Look at me! I laid down KK to AA PF!" post.

[/ QUOTE ]

The title came because I didnt want to title it "laydown KK preflop?" like everyone else does for this situation. Your statement questions my integrity.

If what you have done is mindlessly try to troll me then haha, I guess you got me. Be sure to correct all of my spelling errors for me too.

I already have more attention then I want. I honestly want to know how people feel about the laydown given the rest of the line remain the same.

[tech]

[ QUOTE ]
I honestly want to know how people feel about the laydown given the rest of the line remain the same.


[/ QUOTE ]

There is a post somewhere in which ZeeJustin says that in all the SNGs he has played, he has never laid down KK preflop. Here, there certainly is not enough evidence for you to drop it, given the pot size and your relatively small amount of chips remaining.

[curtains]

Funny Im pretty sure I saw Zee post a hand where he did fold KK preflop.

[Benholio]

I think this is a no-brainer call. Even if you were 80% sure the guy had aces you make money here. You're getting over 4:1 to call for the main pot here. Not to mention that you are a huge favorite for the smaller side pot with upside100.

[tech]

Quite possible. Here is the post I was referring to: Link (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Number=696008&amp;page=0&amp;view=co llapsed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=2&amp;vc=1)

[The Yugoslavian]

I call/push here.

I don't think it's close.

Good read I guess, /images/graemlins/tongue.gif.

Yugoslav

[Costanza]

I thought I remembered that also. Here's the link. (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=singletable&amp;Number=1453463 &amp;fpart=&amp;PHPSESSID=)

A slightly different situation, however.

[Apathy]

Note that the buyin for that tourney is 1065, not 33.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]

Yes. If you look at the board you will see that I would have lost with KK to AK as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

But it wasn't an issue of winning or losing, it was about folding to AA. Folding to AK would be pretty painfully bad preflop given how substantial the pot already is, so he's going to have to have AA just about all the time for this to be right.

You said that your instincts were "Hey, one of them probably has AA." That's always possible. How do you decide how likely it is? How did you put them on a range? What reads did you have? You give no useful information in this context and don't really explain your thought processes. Without these, I don't think you can get the serious opinions that you claim several posts after the fact to be asking for. There are certainly some players I know who I could probably fold these K's to, but an unknown in a $30 online SNG is not somebody that I will fold K's to.

[ QUOTE ]

If what you have done is mindlessly try to troll me then haha, I guess you got me. Be sure to correct all of my spelling errors for me too.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nah, no trolling. I'm still of the opinion that this is a thinly veiled brag post.

[lastchance]

Yeah.... Folding this without knowing someone has AA = bad.

[Ryendal]

And the fact that is a 3-way hands is nothing ?

[adanthar]

I'd have rated this a 10/10 if you only raised to 200 and folded to the push, instead. As it was I give it a 5/10 since you wound up giving yourself odds to suck out with the third guy's dead money /images/graemlins/wink.gif

This is exactly the type of hand where you *should* theoretically be folding kings. Now let us never speak of it or bump this thread again because it'll result in another 50 of these and 49 of them will make my brain hurt.

[Freudian]

I can sometimes fold QQ when I get a lot of weird action preflop. But I doubt I would ever fold KK unless someone told me they have AA and I have a lie detector confirming what they are saying.

That said, sometimes I get the "he has AA" feeling and often it turns out to be the case.

[prepotency]

[ QUOTE ]
I can sometimes fold QQ when I get a lot of weird action preflop. But I doubt I would ever fold KK unless someone told me they have AA and I have a lie detector confirming what they are saying.

That said, sometimes I get the "he has AA" feeling and often it turns out to be the case.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ya I get that feeling sometimes and 49/50 times I'm wrong. That's not because I'm a bad reader it's because all of you forget when you get these suspicions because they are immediately aleviated when you see him flip over JJ. This is your mind playing paranoid conspiracy theory tricks on yourself. I have and will always call all-in or push all-in with KK preflop. To lay this down is certainly losing you money in the long run. This is especially true when you play constantly in the same level.

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I can sometimes fold QQ when I get a lot of weird action preflop. But I doubt I would ever fold KK unless someone told me they have AA and I have a lie detector confirming what they are saying.

That said, sometimes I get the "he has AA" feeling and often it turns out to be the case.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ya I get that feeling sometimes and 49/50 times I'm wrong. That's not because I'm a bad reader it's because all of you forget when you get these suspicions because they are immediately aleviated when you see him flip over JJ. This is your mind playing paranoid conspiracy theory tricks on yourself. I have and will always call all-in or push all-in with KK preflop. To lay this down is certainly losing you money in the long run. This is especially true when you play constantly in the same level.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, then you are getting that feeling way too often. Sometimes the betting sequence/player involved only leaves AA-QQ. If you have a hand that doesn't look all that hot vs either of those three it is motivated to throw it away instead of hoping your JJ/AK/whatever is good enough.

It is not about seeing monsters, it is about paying attention the 2-3 times a week it happens.