Anything wrong with marijuana?

[DBowling]

I am having a hard time finding information about marijuana that is not biased (on both sides). My search for information has led me to believe that the worst negative effects of marijuana is lung cancer. Is that it? Then whats the big deal? Why do i have the anti-marijuana side talking about killing brain cells, destroying ones memory, comparisons to heavier drugs?

[pshreck]

Letting your baby sister drown in the pool.

[DBowling]

[ QUOTE ]
Letting your baby sister drown in the pool.

[/ QUOTE ]

and hitting the little girl on the bike as i exit the drive-thru

[tbach24]

Supposedly it's a gateway drug

[AdamK]

You don't pay any tax on marijuana.
Just a guess.

[Uglyowl]

[ QUOTE ]
lung cancer. Is that it? Then whats the big deal?

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope you are kidding. Is there any worse side effect than death? People don't survive lung cancer!

[mason55]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Letting your baby sister drown in the pool.

[/ QUOTE ]

and hitting the little girl on the bike as i exit the drive-thru

[/ QUOTE ]

and shooting yourself in the face

[diddle]

the most common side affect is hilarity

[bd8802]

supporting terrorists

[Asufiji2004]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
lung cancer. Is that it? Then whats the big deal?

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope you are kidding. Is there any worse side effect than death? People don't survive lung cancer!

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah if you mean what's wrong with it is it harmful..then this is the answer.

But if you mean what's wrong with it why is it illegal...well then you got me. If cigarettes and booze are legal weed should probably be too. It's a gateway drug because people who sell drugs are salesman and make more money selling worse drugs. If people could get it from a weed store crime would go down and little girls gettin run over by a car full of potheads.

[Felix_Nietsche]

And Cocaine for the Marxist terrorists in South America..

[Felix_Nietsche]

The MariJane battle has been fought there HUNDREDS of Times...

[DBowling]

[ QUOTE ]
You don't pay any tax on marijuana.
Just a guess.

[/ QUOTE ]

i understand why it is illegal from a governments perspective, however, when people my age feel it neccessary to group marijuana with other bad drugs(and talk about how bad it is), i find it funny/odd, considering they smoke ciggarettes and drink alcohol.

[Voltron87]

they're marxist terrorists because they sell cocaine, not the other way around. they weren't really marxists or terrorists before they grew cocaine, just a detail.

[DBowling]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Letting your baby sister drown in the pool.

[/ QUOTE ]

and hitting the little girl on the bike as i exit the drive-thru

[/ QUOTE ]

and shooting yourself in the face

[/ QUOTE ]

and getting taken advantage of at a party

[purnell]

There is alot of propaganda out there. It's not harmless, but...

It does not kill brain cells (alcohol and narcotics do).
It has a temporary disruptive effect on short-term memory.
It is not physically addictive (alcohol and narcotics are).
The 'gateway drug' argument is absurd. No intelligent person should be fooled.
The primary reason to keep it illegal is the preservation of law-enforcement jobs.


It's not good for you. It's not nearly as bad for you as some folks claim.

[bholdr]

[ QUOTE ]


and shooting yourself in the face

[/ QUOTE ]


the commercial you are referring to, if it's the same one that i'vve seen, is the best example that i've ever seen of the pure lunacy of the anti-drug lobby and their neo-con buddies... i mean, c'mon, people...

the problem isn't the 'pot',... IT'S THE FUKING GUN!

it's unbelievable that obvious bullsht like this is being used to brainwash kids during their afternoon cartoons. shameful, it makes me sick to my stomach (which ganja happens to cure, btw, it's also usefull for stress disorders, migranes, helping with chemo, as a painkiller, for treating sleep disorders, and so on and so forth. and not 'pot' or 'weed'- those are derogotoy terms perpetuated by the anti-drug alliance to add a negitive connotation to ganja)

[Al P]

Marijuana makes baby jesus laugh.

[Richard Tanner]

Ok b, I'd be happy to take this one over to the politics forum, but while were here, the problem isn't the Gun.
The problem is, drumroll please, PERSONAL RESPONSIBILTY. It's the parents who leave there kids home alone, it's the parents that store loaded unlocked guns. Guns don't kill people, darwinism kills people.

Cody

[gumpzilla]

I've always enjoyed the "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" argument, just because it seems fun to take it in all kinds of silly directions.

Guns don't kill people, bullets kill people.
Bullets don't kill people, bullet wounds kill people.
Bullet wounds don't kill people, massive blood loss kills people.

I invite people to continue the chain.

[bholdr]

sry, cody, but guns DO kill people. even if the responsibility rests upon the person that used the gun, the dead person wouldn't be dead if the gun wasn't there. (hand)guns facilitate murder, crime, and the existance of dangerous situations.

the whole 'guns don't kill people...' argument is, IMO, a conservative cop-out intended to dodge personal responsibility (responsibility garnered by years of fighting against tough gun safety laws) rather than promote it. the other respondant showed the absurdity of the argument nicely, i think.

thanks for your response anyway.

[AdamK]

I don't know what age group you are...

I'm in my my early thirties & hardly indulge nowadays.

But, i think we both agree that anyone grouping weed with nasty drugs like alcohol & cigarettes really doesn't know what they are talking about.
I had this conversation at my local dog track a couple of days ago with one of my older friends ( he is early 60ish).
It is odd that he both smoked & was drinking scotch , but i guess people become 'programmed that way' through the years.

He's a nice guy, but it's hard to defeat all that rubbish you read & see in the press.
Enjoy.

[Lawrence Ng]

Come to Vancouver my friend..and I will take you to a place where you can find out all you want..

Lawrence

[JMP300z]

[ QUOTE ]

The 'gateway drug' argument is absurd. No intelligent person should be fooled..

[/ QUOTE ]

uhm, no intelligent person should be fooled by this argument or fooled into doing other drugs??

Either way Marijuana is definitely a gateway drug, for both smart and stupid people. You could argue that so are alcohol and cigarettes but marijuana is a gateway to other illegal drugs. You can sit here and say "doing one drug does not make you do another". And I will agree. However, smoking marijuana definitely makes you more likely to agree to try other drugs, shrooms being the biggest example ive seen. Then coke, herion etc. I have a lot (a lot a lot) of first hand experience in this with friends and family. Some very intelligent people.

-JP

[DBowling]

[ QUOTE ]
Come to Vancouver my friend..and I will take you to a place where you can find out all you want..

Lawrence

[/ QUOTE ]

What do you mean? i will find out all the bad stuff or all the good stuff?

if you were being serious, i would take you up on your offer. I will likely be taking a trip to vancouver in the next few months, and am really not sure what to do once i get there.

[mason55]

[ QUOTE ]
uhm, no intelligent person should be fooled by this argument or fooled into doing other drugs??

Either way Marijuana is definitely a gateway drug, for both smart and stupid people. You could argue that so are alcohol and cigarettes but marijuana is a gateway to other illegal drugs. You can sit here and say "doing one drug does not make you do another". And I will agree. However, smoking marijuana definitely makes you more likely to agree to try other drugs, shrooms being the biggest example ive seen. Then coke, herion etc. I have a lot (a lot a lot) of first hand experience in this with friends and family. Some very intelligent people.

-JP

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this because of the drug or the people you come into contact with because you can't buy it at the store?

[pokerjo22]

Everybody I know who smoked weed used to drink milk. I swear its true. Milk is a serious gateway drug. It has something to do with lactose I think.

[DBowling]

[ QUOTE ]
Everybody I know who smoked weed used to drink milk. I swear its true. Milk is a serious gateway drug. It has something to do with lactose I think.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is interesting. i have been known to drink milk from time to time. ill check myself into rehab right away.

[Matt Flynn]

considerably less dangerous than alcohol, but black people and poor people used it most so we persecute it. gotta have your illegal drugs. we also outlaw betelnut, probably the most used stimulant in the world, or at least second to caffeine.

it dramatically impairs short-term memory. with habitual use it reduces motivation in many but not all users. if you use it, you should at least smoke it through a bong. better to just eat it - then no lung cancer - but i'm told that is far more powerful so go easy.

a DUI is a DUI is a DUI. while marijuana impairs driving less than alcohol, it still impairs driving. that is not cool.

it does indeed help AIDS victims eat more. severe weight loss in AIDS comes primarily from not eating, so the hunger effects are helpful. its effects on glaucoma are mild at best. i file it under who-gives-a-[censored]. don't spew health benefits at me (they are way overblown), and don't spew dangers at me. alcohol remains a far more dangerous drug, and also far more beneficial in smaller habitual quantities.

how many billions would be gained by legalizing marijuana? first you release 750,000 prisoners, saving at least 30K/year per. then you tax it $10/ eighth-ounce. price still goes down with legalization. still need the cops to pursue tax avoiders. we save $20 billion on prisons and gain what, $50 billion a year in revenue? almost enough to fund an occupation of a hopelessly hostile nation.

sigh.

matt

[SpearsBritney]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

The 'gateway drug' argument is absurd. No intelligent person should be fooled..

[/ QUOTE ]

uhm, no intelligent person should be fooled by this argument or fooled into doing other drugs??

Either way Marijuana is definitely a gateway drug, for both smart and stupid people. You could argue that so are alcohol and cigarettes but marijuana is a gateway to other illegal drugs. You can sit here and say "doing one drug does not make you do another". And I will agree. However, smoking marijuana definitely makes you more likely to agree to try other drugs, shrooms being the biggest example ive seen. Then coke, herion etc. I have a lot (a lot a lot) of first hand experience in this with friends and family. Some very intelligent people.

-JP

[/ QUOTE ]

"Gateway" drug. HAHAHA
If marijuana didn't exist, they would just lable some other drug a "gateway" drug to take it's place, and the exact same people would be doing that drug instead.

[YourFoxyGrandma]

Unless you smoke alot of it all the time for a significant period of time, most of the side effect wear off completely after a month or so.

[DBowling]

[ QUOTE ]
don't spew health benefits at me (they are way overblown), and don't spew dangers at me.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is exactly what im talking about

[spamuell]

Thanks for your post Matt.

[ QUOTE ]
it dramatically impairs short-term memory.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you know how long this lasts for? I've read different stuff about it but as you're a doctor, I'll believe you.

[JMP300z]

[ QUOTE ]

Is this because of the drug or the people you come into contact with because you can't buy it at the store?

[/ QUOTE ]

It is because once you start getting a high from a drug that you enjoy and see no harmful effects from, you are not adverse to trying other highs...just to test. Especially when getting high from marijuana starts getting stale. Now with your new habit, you also have the friends/contacts to get your hands on other drugs. You already are doing one illegal drug, whats the harm in just trying a second. Just once.

Example: Way back in undergrad, Freshman year we had our fraternity pledge retreat, everyone try some new drug. Me, I smoked, everyone that had smoked, did shrooms, everyone that had done shrooms, did X or Coke or whatever. In anycase, most of the other kids that tried weed for the first time freshman year, went on to smoke it all that year and then second year in the house, try shrooms or whatever, by senior year most of them do lots of coke. Most of these guys were very smart. All of them at least smart enough to get into UGA on hope scholarship (A/B students), not that easy anymore.

Second example, both my mother's brothers grew up where her parents didnt know/discipline them for smoking marijuana. Her one brother died about 5 years ago a few weeks before he was going to get married froma no single drug overdose, just a serious shut down of his system. His house was littered with notebooks documenting different drug mixes and pills trying to find new highs. He had those cases used by old people for different pills for different days of the week, except he would have a case for each hour of the day taking different sets every 15 minutes.

Her other brother has lost his job, his wife, his kids, all his money, was kicked out of our house, my grandparents house, in and out of rehab and is only now starting to get his life back together but still has the drug habits as far as I know.

Now, obviously these several cases do not proove anything. But they are not uncommon. Also, the milk argument is just plain ignorant...If you were trying to get me to understand that correlation does not equal causation, good job. Like the whole fact that during months of high ice cream sales there are lots of drowning deaths, does this mean that ice cream drowns people or that people like ice cream in hot months where also people like to swim.

In any case, I have argued this with friends over and over...friends who smoke marijuana and will say to my face its not a gateway drug. Then I ask them, have you ever tried any other drugs...answer: sure. Then I ask them, before or after you started smoking marijuana: after. Would you have tried these drugs before you tried marijuana: probably not.

-JP

Edit: Also, I dont see why people so vehemently defend marijuana as NOT a gateway drug. Just admit it is and move on. Id say alcohol is a gateway drug to marijuana. Gateway drug just means you do it, you are statistically more likely to do another drug higher up on the drug chain.

[DBowling]

i used to be a huge caffeine addict. i drank a lot of soda, as well as caffeine pills and also caffeine mints. i had heard about speed, never knew anyone who did it. but i just assumed it would be like caffeine, but more. i really wanted to try speed for a while, but could never figure out where to find it.
i never ended up finding any, and am no longer interested. im also caffeine free, at the moment. all of this before i even knew about marijuana

caffeine.
my gateway drug.

all i mean by this post is, people try different things for different reasons.
i agree that perhaps people who are open to marijuana may be open to other illegal drugs, but these people are more open to begin with, so it makes sense that they may try other things.

[YourFoxyGrandma]

I smoke weed. I love it. I will never do any other drugs. Ever.

I know people that started on weed and moved to other stuff too, though. It's definitely a personal thing.

[SpearsBritney]

[ QUOTE ]

Gateway drug just means you do it, you are statistically more likely to do another drug higher up on the drug chain.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is no way to distinguish cause from effect here. You're basically saying that if marijuana didn't exist, these same people would not have found other drugs by any other means, which is entirely unsubstantiated.

[JMP300z]

[ QUOTE ]
i used to be a huge caffeine addict. i drank a lot of soda, as well as caffeine pills and also caffeine mints. i had heard about speed, never knew anyone who did it. but i just assumed it would be like caffeine, but more. i really wanted to try speed for a while, but could never figure out where to find it.
i never ended up finding any, and am no longer interested. im also caffeine free, at the moment. all of this before i even knew about marijuana

caffeine.
my gateway drug.

all i mean by this post is, people try different things for different reasons.
i agree that perhaps people who are open to marijuana may be open to other illegal drugs, but these people are more open to begin with, so it makes sense that they may try other things.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes some people are more likely to do one thing than another. Yes there are a million other factors why people do drugs other than what drug they did before. Just because you smoke marijuana does not mean you are going to try or be addicted to other drugs. I understand all this.

That said, marijuana is a drug that gets most people into illegal drugs. A good portion (I dont have any legit statistical data here.) of people who are addicted or tried illegal drugs tried marijuana first. YES this is very similar to how people try vanilla icecream first before trying all kinds of funky flavors.

It is still a gateway drug. Just like you normally pass by boardwalk and park place before passing go...you normally pass by marijuana. Thats not to say you couldnt get a chance card and skip to go, or a go to jail card and skip go all together.

-JP

[shadow29]

I am pretty sure that using it often (like multiple times per week) affects your motivation and intelligence.

I have a friend who used to be sorta smart (B student). He started smoking every day, lost all motivation and intelligence (there is probably a correlation there). All he wants to do now is smoke. And that's it.

Sorta sad, really.

[touchfaith]

NORML (http://www.norml.org/)

[DBowling]

[ QUOTE ]
I am pretty sure that using it often (like multiple times per week) affects your motivation and intelligence.

I have a friend who used to be sorta smart (B student). He started smoking every day, lost all motivation and intelligence (there is probably a correlation there). All he wants to do now is smoke. And that's it.


[/ QUOTE ]

a close friend of mine smokes almost everyday, very often several times per day. he is one of the most motivated and intelligent people i know.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

The 'gateway drug' argument is absurd. No intelligent person should be fooled..

[/ QUOTE ]

uhm, no intelligent person should be fooled by this argument or fooled into doing other drugs??

Either way Marijuana is definitely a gateway drug, for both smart and stupid people. You could argue that so are alcohol and cigarettes but marijuana is a gateway to other illegal drugs. You can sit here and say "doing one drug does not make you do another". And I will agree. However, smoking marijuana definitely makes you more likely to agree to try other drugs, shrooms being the biggest example ive seen. Then coke, herion etc. I have a lot (a lot a lot) of first hand experience in this with friends and family. Some very intelligent people.

-JP

[/ QUOTE ]

"Gateway" drug. HAHAHA
If marijuana didn't exist, they would just lable some other drug a "gateway" drug to take it's place, and the exact same people would be doing that drug instead.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's exactly right. If it wasn't mj, it would be something else. But that doesn't defeat the argument. It is A gateway drug. Maybe not THE gateway drug. One of a few. Supposedly (I wouldn't know), many who try mj eventually feel "qualified" to move on to bigger and better things. Maybe not you, but a lot of other people ... smart, dumb, white, black blah blah blah.

Everyone feels like they are superior. It won't happen to them. They can use mj responsibly. It's like not wearing a seat belt. "I'm a good driver. I'll never get into an accident." Unfortunately, it happens to a lot of these "superior" people.

Personally, I've never seen the point in it. Nothing good can come out of it. Either I won't like it -- and why do I want to do something I won't like; or I will like it -- which is worse.

Of course, that doesn't mean it should be illegal ...

[JMP300z]

[ QUOTE ]
I smoke weed. I love it. I will never do any other drugs. Ever.

I know people that started on weed and moved to other stuff too, though. It's definitely a personal thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

And I know people who have said this and a few years later while hanging out smoking with a friend who happens to bring some other drug over while high say why not, im not doing anything else today.

-JP

Also, let me get this straight before I get too many attacks from the board. I know lots of functioning potheads. Im friends with lots of potheads. I hang out with them while they are smoking up, I have smoked myself (not within a year or two), although I prefer brownies (something I wouldnt have done before I drank for the first time, alcohol, the gateway drug). I do not preach to people about what they should and shouldnt do. However, being ignorant to the fact that there is a strong correlation, and probably a strong causation (although like said, very difficult to prove) is just being that, ignorant.

-JP

[SpearsBritney]

[ QUOTE ]


Just like you normally pass by boardwalk and park place before passing go...you normally pass by marijuana.


[/ QUOTE ]

I guess by this logic, food and water are also gateway drugs.

[JMP300z]

[ QUOTE ]
I am pretty sure that using it often (like multiple times per week) affects your motivation and intelligence.

I have a friend who used to be sorta smart (B student). He started smoking every day, lost all motivation and intelligence (there is probably a correlation there). All he wants to do now is smoke. And that's it.

Sorta sad, really.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yah i have one such friend in his 5th year as a home ec major (family consumer sciences), he will swear up and down that marijuana doesnt effect his motivation. I will agree, hes very motivated to do well, he talks about how much money hes going to make with all his business ideas... hes mentally motivated enough to do it...he just wont.

-JP

[JMP300z]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Just like you normally pass by boardwalk and park place before passing go...you normally pass by marijuana.


[/ QUOTE ]

I guess by this logic, food and water are also gateway drugs.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is perhaps the dumbest/laziest argument ive ever heard. I cant believe im lowering myself with a response.

-JP

[SpearsBritney]

[ QUOTE ]


That is perhaps the dumbest/laziest argument ive ever heard. I cant believe im lowering myself with a response.



[/ QUOTE ]

That is perhaps the dumbest/laziest argument ive ever heard. I cant believe im lowering myself with a response.

[AdamK]

Quote:

Quote:


Just like you normally pass by boardwalk and park place before passing go...you normally pass by marijuana.




I guess by this logic, food and water are also gateway drugs.



That is perhaps the dumbest/laziest argument ive ever heard. I cant believe im lowering myself with a response.

-JP

That is perhaps the dumbest/laziest argument ive ever heard. I cant believe im lowering myself with a response.

[touchfaith]

Weed = Anti-Tilt & +EV

[SpearsBritney]

[ QUOTE ]
Weed = Anti-Tilt & +EV

[/ QUOTE ]

Weed is definately -EV

[justin D]

Speaking of P.O.T. where is Brown Thumb?

[JMP300z]

Fine if i must, Saying that food and water are steps on the way to marijuana and other drugs is true...just like being born is a step to food and water (consequently being born is a step to dying, or even murdering someone). However, this is not a linear pathway. Somewhere in youre life you branch off and try something. This experience opens up chances for new experiences. Smoking marijuana opens up the likelihood of trying other drugs.

Why are you so antagonistic and stubborn?

-JP

[DBowling]

[ QUOTE ]
Somewhere in youre life you branch off and try something. This experience opens up chances for new experiences. Smoking marijuana opens up the likelihood of trying other drugs.

[/ QUOTE ]

having an open personality makes you more likely to try more things.
people with open personalities are more likely to try marijuana, but they are already more likely to try other drugs(than people who are not open to trying new things), before the marijuana encounter ever happens.

[banditbdl]

[ QUOTE ]
even if the responsibility rests upon the person that used the gun, the dead person wouldn't be dead if the gun wasn't there.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not saying guns are good here, but by your same logic they wouldn't be dead if they weren't high because they wouldn't have shot themselves in the freaking face.

[SpearsBritney]

[ QUOTE ]
Smoking marijuana opens up the likelihood of trying other drugs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wrong. Being the personality type that would be inclined to smoke marijuana opens up the likelyhood of trying other drugs. Marijuana itself has nothing to do with it.


[ QUOTE ]
Why are you so antagonistic and stubborn?


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure.

[touchfaith]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why are you so antagonistic and stubborn?


[/ QUOTE ]

Lack of weed.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[SpearsBritney]

[ QUOTE ]


Why are you so antagonistic and stubborn?



[/ QUOTE ]

Being stubborn is a gateway to being antagonistic.

[YourFoxyGrandma]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I smoke weed. I love it. I will never do any other drugs. Ever.

I know people that started on weed and moved to other stuff too, though. It's definitely a personal thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

And I know people who have said this and a few years later while hanging out smoking with a friend who happens to bring some other drug over while high say why not, im not doing anything else today.

-JP

[/ QUOTE ]

Cool.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, let me get this straight before I get too many attacks from the board. I know lots of functioning potheads. Im friends with lots of potheads. I hang out with them while they are smoking up, I have smoked myself (not within a year or two), although I prefer brownies (something I wouldnt have done before I drank for the first time, alcohol, the gateway drug). I do not preach to people about what they should and shouldnt do. However, being ignorant to the fact that there is a strong correlation, and probably a strong causation (although like said, very difficult to prove) is just being that, ignorant.

-JP

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you somewhat about weed being something of a gateway drug. The milk/weed argument is weak; I think sexual behavior presents a more accurate analogy:

Let's say you meet a girl, you like her, you go on some dates, you make out with her, you cop a feel, maybe you go down on her, and then you have sex. If you compare weed to the "making out" stage and harder drugs to everything after that, some things start to make sense. You would never have sex with a girl without making out with her first. And why have sex? Because you liked making out with her, obviously. This is the same thing with drugs. Nobody starts off shooting heroin; you start small and work up because you like it and because with each new step you feel more and more comfortable.

This analogy starts to fall apart if taken further, however. With sexual behavior, the ultimate goal is sex, where I don't believe this is true with drugs. Many people are very happy with alcohol or weed and will never feel comfortable taking it to "the next step".

I like weed alot, as I said previously. I will never feel comfortable doing any harder drugs, however. I am sure of this. I think it depends very much on the type of person as to whether or not they go on to try other drugs after trying marijuana.

[bholdr]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not saying guns are good here, but by your same logic they wouldn't be dead if they weren't high because they wouldn't have shot themselves in the freaking face

[/ QUOTE ]

wrong. there is a possibility that the kid would not be shot in the face if he was not high, but no possibility that he would be shot in the face if there was no gun.

[bholdr]

[ QUOTE ]
it does indeed help AIDS victims eat more. severe weight loss in AIDS comes primarily from not eating, so the hunger effects are helpful. its effects on glaucoma are mild at best. i file it under who-gives-a-[censored]. don't spew health benefits at me (they are way overblown), and don't spew dangers at me. alcohol remains a far more dangerous drug, and also far more beneficial in smaller habitual quantities.


[/ QUOTE ]

there are many, many, chemo patiants that will attest that the benifical (painkilling and appitite stimulating) effects of marajuana have saved their lives. this is 'overblown'? as for glacouma, it helps people NOT GO BLIND...


the fact is, a potent and helpful medicine is banned because the propagandists have succeded in establishing their ideology as more important than people's health.

[bholdr]

[ QUOTE ]
Personally, I've never seen the point in it. Nothing good can come out of it. Either I won't like it -- and why do I want to do something I won't like; or I will like it -- which is worse

[/ QUOTE ]

...or, like most recreational users, you could have a good time, relax and laugh a bit, come down, and go about your business...

[ QUOTE ]
many who try mj eventually feel "qualified" to move on to bigger and better things.

[/ QUOTE ]

having never tried it, you wouldn't know. what's to prove that they wouldn't have used those drugs anyway? it's an invalid line of reasoning that supports the atavistic 'gateway drug' concept.

[ QUOTE ]
Everyone feels like they are superior. It won't happen to them. They can use mj responsibly. It's like not wearing a seat belt. "I'm a good driver. I'll never get into an accident." Unfortunately, it happens to a lot of these "superior" people.

[/ QUOTE ]

what's your point?

[GrekeHaus]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not saying guns are good here, but by your same logic they wouldn't be dead if they weren't high because they wouldn't have shot themselves in the freaking face

[/ QUOTE ]

wrong. there is a possibility that the kid would not be shot in the face if he was not high, but no possibility that he would be shot in the face if there was no gun.

[/ QUOTE ]

The milk/weed argument is dumb because if you take the ratio of people who drink milk and smoke weed to people drink milk and don't smoke weed, it will be approximately the same as the ratio of people who don't drink milk and smoke weed to people don't drink milk and don't smoke weed. If the above is true then there is no meaningful correspondence between milk drinking and weed smoking. If it's not true, I'd like to see evidence.

In the above example, it's true that there is a zero percent chance with no gun, there would be no people shooting themselves in the face. However, given a large enough sample size, I think you would see a meaningful correspondence between people who smoke weed and people who accidentally shoot themselves in the face.

I'm not saying that people should or shouldn't have guns, or that people should or shouldn't smoke weed, but the effects of weed in this case are not insignificant.

By the same logic presented here, if there were no hard drugs available, nobody would do them. Therefore, the problem is hard drugs and there are no external factors that would lead somebody to be more or likely to do them.

[mason55]

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Everyone feels like they are superior. It won't happen to them. They can use mj responsibly. It's like not wearing a seat belt. "I'm a good driver. I'll never get into an accident." Unfortunately, it happens to a lot of these "superior" people.

[/ QUOTE ]

what's your point?

[/ QUOTE ]

I always wanted to try other drugs from the moment i learned about them in D.A.R.E. The only thing marijuana did was allow me to find other people who had anything i wanted. I don't feel like it was unfortunate. It's a part of my life that is gone and passed pretty much, but I think you look at advancing to other drugs from marijuana as a worse thing than it is for many people.

[bholdr]

[ QUOTE ]
Somewhere in youre life you branch off and try something. This experience opens up chances for new experiences. Smoking marijuana opens up the likelihood of trying other drugs.

Why are you so antagonistic and stubborn?


[/ QUOTE ]

they are being antoginistic and stubborn because the 'gateway drug' argument (yours) is not a logically provable one, and has been PROVEN wrong by all of the legitamate (scientificly, not ideologically motivated) studies:

bbc article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2538065.stm)
In the US study, researchers from the independent Rand Drug Policy Research Center in Santa Monica, California, looked at data from the National Household Survey on Drug Abuse between 1982 and 1994.

They concluded that teenagers who took hard drugs did so whether they had first tried cannabis or not.

Researchers said the likelihood of cocaine or heroin users having previously used cannabis was high, not because of the gateway effect, but because of their personalities.

there are many studies proporting to prove the 'gateway' effect, but each only address the likelyhood that a user of marajuana is also likely to use harder drugs, they make no effort to establish a chain of causality.

perhaps you were a good student during your D.A.R.E brainwashing?

[GrekeHaus]

I would say that the two most important factors in detemining who will do hard drugs are personality and availability. A person is more likely to do hard drugs if they want to do hard drugs, and a person is more likely to do hard drugs if they have access to them.

However, it also stands to reason that someone who wants to smoke weed is more likely to want to do hard drugs and someone who has access to weed is more likely to have access to hard drugs. For this reason, it may create the illusion that smoking weed leads to wanting to do hard drugs when in reality, the two were already connected before the person smoked weed in the first place.

Based on this, I think it would be very hard for any research study to ever determine causality.

[bholdr]

note that i never said anything about baning guns or restristing marijuana.


[ QUOTE ]
In the above example, it's true that there is a zero percent chance with no gun, there would be no people shooting themselves in the face. However, given a large enough sample size, I think you would see a meaningful correspondence between people who smoke weed and people who accidentally shoot themselves in the face.


[/ QUOTE ]

i have not heard of even one accidental death involving marijuana as a direct cause- though i'm sure that examples are out there. my problem with the particular piece of propaganda in question is the implication that marijuana is going to get you or your kids killed. they might as well make an ad against walking down the street, as the likelyhood of dying becase one goes for a stroll is about the same as the likelyhood of dying because you smoked a doobie. It is a deliberate and reckless exxageration aimed at reinforcing the ideologically motivated brainwashing that children in the U.S. are subjected to.

[ QUOTE ]
By the same logic presented here, if there were no hard drugs available, nobody would do them. Therefore, the problem is hard drugs and there are no external factors that would lead somebody to be more or likely to do them.

[/ QUOTE ]

the first part of your argument is patently obvious, and i have no idea how you got to 'there are no external factors'... i am arguing, and the most recent studies aggree, that marijuana is not an 'external factor' (whatever the heck that means...)

here's a link that explains it much better than i am able to: link (http://www.stats.org/record.jsp?type=news&ID=421)

[Matt Flynn]

i forget.

[Matt Flynn]

there are far better drugs for glaucoma.

i have nothing against cancer patients smoking all they want and further think all drug laws should be suspended for seriously ill cancer patients. whatever they want they should get. if marijuana helps their pain it is criminal not to give it to them. says a lot about our society and the willingness of many "fundamentalists" to ask others to suffer. to them i ask, "what would Jesus do?"

[JMP300z]

[ QUOTE ]


they are being antoginistic and stubborn because the 'gateway drug' argument (yours) is not a logically provable one, and has been PROVEN wrong by all of the legitamate (scientificly, not ideologically motivated) studies:

bbc article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2538065.stm)
In the US study, researchers from the independent Rand Drug Policy Research Center in Santa Monica, California, looked at data from the National Household Survey on Drug Abuse between 1982 and 1994.

They concluded that teenagers who took hard drugs did so whether they had first tried cannabis or not.

Researchers said the likelihood of cocaine or heroin users having previously used cannabis was high, not because of the gateway effect, but because of their personalities.

there are many studies proporting to prove the 'gateway' effect, but each only address the likelyhood that a user of marajuana is also likely to use harder drugs, they make no effort to establish a chain of causality.

perhaps you were a good student during your D.A.R.E brainwashing?

[/ QUOTE ]

Dare brainwashing? Maybe i was brainwashed by my dead uncle, my lost uncle, and my cokeheaded college drop out friends. In any case, I think the argument now is stemming from the definition of gateway drug. There is a definite correlation as the article admits...they just havent proven a causation. I never said a side effect of marijuana is a using other drugs...only that it increases the likelyhood. This increased chance of using other drugs after marijuana can be due to external factors (personality, depression), but how do you know you dont have those external factors, how do you know that you wont have some problem in the future that could cause you to try some other drug? In anycase, this post has gone in enough circles and people are again very very stubborn with their marijuana. In conclusion, i dont much give a damn whether you smoke or not (like I said, I do sometimes too), I just like people to be aware of the possibilities of where youre life can possibly go. Enjoy yourselves.

-JP

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Personally, I've never seen the point in it. Nothing good can come out of it. Either I won't like it -- and why do I want to do something I won't like; or I will like it -- which is worse

[/ QUOTE ]

...or, like most recreational users, you could have a good time, relax and laugh a bit, come down, and go about your business...

[ QUOTE ]
many who try mj eventually feel "qualified" to move on to bigger and better things.

[/ QUOTE ]

having never tried it, you wouldn't know. what's to prove that they wouldn't have used those drugs anyway? it's an invalid line of reasoning that supports the atavistic 'gateway drug' concept.

[ QUOTE ]
Everyone feels like they are superior. It won't happen to them. They can use mj responsibly. It's like not wearing a seat belt. "I'm a good driver. I'll never get into an accident." Unfortunately, it happens to a lot of these "superior" people.

[/ QUOTE ]

what's your point?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you think being a recreational drug user is not a big deal, then I wish you the best of luck in your life, and hope that you are not and don't become a lawyer, a doctor, or some other upstanding member of your community, so that your life doesn't fall apart should you get busted one day for buying or possessing. Maybe the risk is small, but when you've got kids to feed, it's a risk you can't take.

[GrekeHaus]

[ QUOTE ]
note that i never said anything about baning guns or restristing marijuana.


[ QUOTE ]
In the above example, it's true that there is a zero percent chance with no gun, there would be no people shooting themselves in the face. However, given a large enough sample size, I think you would see a meaningful correspondence between people who smoke weed and people who accidentally shoot themselves in the face.


[/ QUOTE ]

i have not heard of even one accidental death involving marijuana as a direct cause- though i'm sure that examples are out there. my problem with the particular piece of propaganda in question is the implication that marijuana is going to get you or your kids killed. they might as well make an ad against walking down the street, as the likelyhood of dying becase one goes for a stroll is about the same as the likelyhood of dying because you smoked a doobie. It is a deliberate and reckless exxageration aimed at reinforcing the ideologically motivated brainwashing that children in the U.S. are subjected to.

[ QUOTE ]
By the same logic presented here, if there were no hard drugs available, nobody would do them. Therefore, the problem is hard drugs and there are no external factors that would lead somebody to be more or likely to do them.

[/ QUOTE ]

the first part of your argument is patently obvious, and i have no idea how you got to 'there are no external factors'... i am arguing, and the most recent studies aggree, that marijuana is not an 'external factor' (whatever the heck that means...)

here's a link that explains it much better than i am able to: link (http://www.stats.org/record.jsp?type=news&ID=421)

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I misunderstood your point the first time. I agree with everything you said. My point was roughly, weed can make you do stupid things. Though shooting yourself in the face is unlikely, the chances of doing it are increased by smoking weed. However, the chances are still extremely slim and that commercial was so ludicrous I can't believe they ever aired it in the first place.

[SmileyEH]

its a sin

-SmileyEH

[pokerjo22]

That's sort of my point. To determine the correspondance between marijuana use and 'hard-drug use' you need two numbers in order to determine four populations:

The number of marijuana users who try a hard drug
The number of non-marijuana users who try a hard drug
The number of hard drug users who tried marijuana
The number of hard drug users who never tried marijuana

But gateway studies, or at least the people who popularize them, only focus on the first of these populations. There are other routes to hard drug addiction, illegal painkillers being one possibility, but this figure is never mentioned.

[mmbt0ne]

I don't know how it hasn't been said yet, but go to http://www.erowid.org/

It's like an encyclopedia of narcotics, their effects(short and long term), and other such things.


This page (http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_effects.shtml) is probably what you want to see.

[thatpfunk]

[ QUOTE ]

If you think being a recreational drug user is not a big deal, then I wish you the best of luck in your life, and hope that you are not and don't become a lawyer, a doctor, or some other upstanding member of your community, so that your life doesn't fall apart should you get busted one day for buying or possessing.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is heeeeeeeelarious.

If you are white upper class your chances of being caught and prosecuted are next to nothing. Also, there is little punishment for buying or possession of reasonable amounts.

Do you realize how many upper class individuals engage is recreational drug use?

Some people on this board are incredibly naive.

[mason55]

[ QUOTE ]
If you think being a recreational drug user is not a big deal, then I wish you the best of luck in your life, and hope that you are not and don't become a lawyer, a doctor, or some other upstanding member of your community, so that your life doesn't fall apart should you get busted one day for buying or possessing. Maybe the risk is small, but when you've got kids to feed, it's a risk you can't take.

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you ever even visited the same planet that I live on?

I guess if you aren't paying attention or looking for it, you'd never know, but you would be amazed at the number of upper class, white collar workers who have recrational drug hobbies.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

If you think being a recreational drug user is not a big deal, then I wish you the best of luck in your life, and hope that you are not and don't become a lawyer, a doctor, or some other upstanding member of your community, so that your life doesn't fall apart should you get busted one day for buying or possessing.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is heeeeeeeelarious.

If you are white upper class your chances of being caught and prosecuted are next to nothing. Also, there is little punishment for buying or possession of reasonable amounts.

Do you realize how many upper class individuals engage is recreational drug use?

Some people on this board are incredibly naive.

[/ QUOTE ]

Before I give you the pot/kettle response, tell me:

1. How old are you?
2. What do you do for a living?
3. Do you have children?
4. Where do you live (city)?

Without this information, all I can say is that you are looking at this EXTREMELY broadly. Not everyone lives in Manhattan and buys their pot in Washington Square Park. When you live somewhere where almost everyone is white and upper class, things are a little different. The police don't go to neighboring towns looking for minorities to arrest. They sit on the local roads in the dark and look for cars that are driving slightly erratically. Sure hope you don't have any paraphernalia in the car. Or a little residue. And then, when you think you can sulk home anonymously, your arrest shows up in the "police blotter" in your town's local paper.

But I digress. You know everything. I'm a fool. Excuse my naivete. Back to my oxycontin.

[DBowling]

[ QUOTE ]
This page (http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_effects.shtml) is probably what you want to see.

[/ QUOTE ]

excellent link, thank you very much.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you think being a recreational drug user is not a big deal, then I wish you the best of luck in your life, and hope that you are not and don't become a lawyer, a doctor, or some other upstanding member of your community, so that your life doesn't fall apart should you get busted one day for buying or possessing. Maybe the risk is small, but when you've got kids to feed, it's a risk you can't take.

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you ever even visited the same planet that I live on?

I guess if you aren't paying attention or looking for it, you'd never know, but you would be amazed at the number of upper class, white collar workers who have recrational drug hobbies.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're missing the point. It's that many of these idiots are risking their career -- their ability to feed their family -- by doing so. I acknowledged up front that the risk is small. But the resulting damage if you do get caught far outweighs the risk for many. You don't think that's a big deal? I do. But maybe I'm nuts. I love my kids, try to be responsible, and try to set a good example. Call me crazy. These people are stupid. There are many different ways one can relax and blow off steam that don't involve such a risk. Maybe when you're in college it's not such a big deal to be a "recreational drug user". Don't pretend that it's not a big deal later in life. It is.

PS I can only comment on my segment of "white collar America". But my personal experience is that the number of recreational drug users in my sphere of influence is far less than what you'd figure from the movies. There's a lot of drinking, but drugs (mj on up) are not all that prevalent.

[thatpfunk]

[ QUOTE ]
When you live somewhere where almost everyone is white and upper class, things are a little different. The police don't go to neighboring towns looking for minorities to arrest. They sit on the local roads in the dark and look for cars that are driving slightly erratically.

[/ QUOTE ]

What does this have to do with anything? We are talking about drug use, not duis.

[ QUOTE ]
Sure hope you don't have any paraphernalia in the car. Or a little residue.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you had a clue as to what your rights are, the police wouldn't be searching my car. They aren't allowed to.

[DBowling]

i agree, we are not talking about the legal risk of using marijuana, i dont think.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
When you live somewhere where almost everyone is white and upper class, things are a little different. The police don't go to neighboring towns looking for minorities to arrest. They sit on the local roads in the dark and look for cars that are driving slightly erratically.

[/ QUOTE ]

What does this have to do with anything? We are talking about drug use, not duis.

[ QUOTE ]
Sure hope you don't have any paraphernalia in the car. Or a little residue.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you had a clue as to what your rights are, the police wouldn't be searching my car. They aren't allowed to.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whatever. Change the subject.

[dutchbrodymoss]

Marijuana makes you depressed.

Trust me, once you start, you'll always be unhappy unless you're high.

Trust me, I know. I've been diagnosed with clinical depression, and it all started with me getting high all the time as a college freshmen.

Marijuana is a one way ticket to nowhere. Trust me. I know. I'd be at Harvard Law or something if it wasn't for Mary and Jane. I love them, but they break my heart.

[Brown Thumb]

I like it.

I like it, a lot!

[thatpfunk]

[ QUOTE ]

Whatever. Change the subject.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, the paranoid rant that you gave as an example was getting pulled over because you're on drugs.

I don't and am not condoning drug use and driving.

Please explain how the casual upper class drug user gets busted.

[brassnuts]

The reason that marijuana is a gateway drugs has nothing to do with any intrinsic qualities of the drug. The reason has to do with pot's positioning on the drug food-chain. It is one of the most accessible, least looked down upon, and most widely used drugs. This of course is the first drug used by the majority of people who go on to use worse harsher drugs.

The problem lies in the fact that it is grouped with these other drugs. Even though there is a general view that marijuana isn't as bad as most other illicit drugs, it still is illegal, regardless of the fact that it really isn't very harmful beyond the effects of smoking cigarettes. So you try pot. Maybe you like it... maybe a lot. Now, you've tried an illegal substance. Now you're "bad". But, from your first person perspective, you see that marijuana really isn't very harmful, which leads you to ponder how bad some of these other illegal drugs could be. If the wide public's conception of marijuana were more realistic, it wouldn't be the gateway drug that it is today. Instead, it would probably be viewed in the same light as alcohol or cigarettes: as an optional lifestyle choice for adults and not as a precurser to becoming a crackwhore.

[DBowling]

[ QUOTE ]
its a sin


[/ QUOTE ]

i agree, this also seems to be a religious thing, in my little experience. is there a specific bible passage that is specifically against marijuana like substances? im confused why my grandmother is so hardheaded on the subject.

[mason55]

[ QUOTE ]

You're missing the point. It's that many of these idiots are risking their career -- their ability to feed their family -- by doing so. I acknowledged up front that the risk is small. But the resulting damage if you do get caught far outweighs the risk for many. You don't think that's a big deal? I do. But maybe I'm nuts. I love my kids, try to be responsible, and try to set a good example. Call me crazy. These people are stupid. There are many different ways one can relax and blow off steam that don't involve such a risk. Maybe when you're in college it's not such a big deal to be a "recreational drug user". Don't pretend that it's not a big deal later in life. It is.

PS I can only comment on my segment of "white collar America". But my personal experience is that the number of recreational drug users in my sphere of influence is far less than what you'd figure from the movies. There's a lot of drinking, but drugs (mj on up) are not all that prevalent.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am in white collar America as well. I live and work here. And I know many people all over who are recreational drug users. You have missed my point that if you aren't looking for it or aren't involved, you would never know.

As well, you're just presenting an argument that it should be illegal because it's the legalities that destroy peoples lives.

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
My search for information has led me to believe that the worst negative effects of marijuana is lung cancer.

[/ QUOTE ]

This isn't really true. Marijuana does contain a carcinogen called benzylpyrene but it's effects tend to be exaggerated IMO. Cancer from smoking comes from radioactive polonium. Do a google search, they literally dump heavy metals on the crops as fertilizer.

I haven't read the thread, and I'm not going to, but your biggest risk with organically grown weed is becoming a lazy bum IMO. And whether or not you want to admit it or not, weed will make you lazier then you would be without it. The degree varies with each person. There is also the legal consequences too.

[DBowling]

[ QUOTE ]
Cancer from smoking comes from radioactive polonium. Do a google search, they literally dump heavy metals on the crops as fertilizer.

[/ QUOTE ]

holy crap. how do they allow this stuff to go on? how is it possible that the general public is not made aware of the fact that they can save their lives by switching to organic ciggarettes?

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]

holy crap. how do they allow this stuff to go on? how is it possible that the general public is not made aware of the fact that they can save their lives by switching to organic ciggarettes?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because people are stupid? Or maybe most of them are too lazy to click on this link and read.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&q=polonium+tobacco&btnG= Search

That's the stuff that kills everyone. It sits in your lungs for years and keeps letting off radiation.

[DBowling]

i know, but, what i mean is. how is it possible that some organic tobacco grower hasnt stepped up with a big ad campaign that says "hey, we can prove we are healthier for you"
or even, why hasnt truth.com stepped up and said "hey, if youre gonna smoke, you might as well smoke organic because theres a better chance you'll live?"

im emailing them right now, this is really rediculous, good read for smokers: http://www.webspawner.com/users/radioactivethreat/

[wacki]

wow, that is a good link. I like this quote the best.

Researchers have induced cancer in animal test subjects that inhaled polonium 210 but have not caused cancer through the inhalation of any of the non-radioactive chemical carcinogens found in tobacco(12).

Basically, regular cigarettes don't cause cancer. I didn't realize this, but for some reason, it doesn't surprise me. This deserves its own thread.

[DBowling]

[ QUOTE ]
wow, that is a good link. I like this quote the best.

Researchers have induced cancer in animal test subjects that inhaled polonium 210 but have not caused cancer through the inhalation of any of the non-radioactive chemical carcinogens found in tobacco(12).

Basically, regular cigarettes don't cause cancer. I didn't realize this, but for some reason, it doesn't surprise me. This deserves its own thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

what do you mean by, "regular" ciggarettes? im not a smoker, so does marlbro = regular? or organic = regular?

i agree this needs its own thread.

[Riverman]

matt's post should have ended this thread.

[wacki]

I would find it very very very difficult to say radioactive nuclear waste cigarettes are made from regular tobacco.

[DBowling]

[ QUOTE ]
I would find it very very very difficult to say radioactive nuclear waste cigarettes are made from regular tobacco.

[/ QUOTE ]
ah, thats what i was asking. regular ciggarette or regular tobacco. i understand now.

[mmbt0ne]

My mom grew up on a farm, and for a time they grew tobacco. Her mom swears that they could've smoked all the tobacco they wanted, and been fine. She always said that the reason cigarettes are so bad for you nowadays is how much goes into growing more tobacco in less space and quicker. I don't remember the exact numbers, but it's something to the extent of, "We used to get by just fine growing 4000 pounds/acre. Now, if you're not growing 10000 pounds per acre, your family is starving."

[nbake]

[ QUOTE ]
wrong. there is a possibility that the kid would not be shot in the face if he was not high, but no possibility that he would be shot in the face if there was no gun.

[/ QUOTE ]

So what if you replace the gun with a knife...or anything for that matter. Can't say people wouldn't kill people or themselves without guns. People will be violent. The end. If it isn't with a gun it will be with something else.

[DBowling]

[ QUOTE ]
Basically, regular cigarettes don't cause cancer. I didn't realize this, but for some reason, it doesn't surprise me. This deserves its own thread.

[/ QUOTE ]
http://www.californialung.org/spotlight/naturaltobacco.html
/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[purnell]

So let's say that by divine intervention all marijuana is eliminated. Do you suppose that there would be fewer crack users? How 'bout shrooms or acid or X? Alcohol?

[purnell]

werd

[Dead]

Yeah.

It causes lung cancer. Lung cancer sucks.

But people should be free to destroy themselves if they want.

I admit that I've done weed three or four times before. But I don't think I'd make a habit of it.

[purnell]

.