Iverson

[istewart]

Is the epitome of pwnage. Discuss.

[banditbdl]

No, healthy and motivated Shaq is the epitome of pwnage. However, this doesn't change the fact that Iverson can be a dominate force in his own right.

[tbach24]

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20050430/capt.pxc10604300250.pistons_76ers_pxc106.jpg

[Voltron87]

well they play different positions so its a tough comparison. if they played on the same team though, it would be the ultimate pwn. i would probably actually watch basketball then.

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
But it's easy to talk about. It's easy to sum it up when we just talk about practice. We're sitting here... I'm supposed to be the franchise player, and we're in here talking about practice. I mean, listen, we're talking about practice. Not a game. Not a game. Not a game. We're talking about practice. Not a game. Not the game that I go out there and die for and play every game like it's my last. Not the game. We're talking about practice, man. I mean how silly is that. And we're talking about practice.

[/ QUOTE ]

hehe, some might hate him for saying that, I think its awsome.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But it's easy to talk about. It's easy to sum it up when we just talk about practice. We're sitting here... I'm supposed to be the franchise player, and we're in here talking about practice. I mean, listen, we're talking about practice. Not a game. Not a game. Not a game. We're talking about practice. Not a game. Not the game that I go out there and die for and play every game like it's my last. Not the game. We're talking about practice, man. I mean how silly is that. And we're talking about practice.

[/ QUOTE ]

hehe, some might hate him for saying that, I think its awsome.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's easily my favorite quote from a news conference ever

[trying2learn]

I would say Larry Brown has pwnage over A.I.

A.I. - much like Kobe Bryant seem like tragic stories to me. Here's a couple of AMAZING talents...that were too self-absorbed to ever reach their full potential.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
I would say Larry Brown has pwnage over A.I.

A.I. - much like Kobe Bryant seem like tragic stories to me. Here's a couple of AMAZING talents...that were too self-absorbed to ever reach their full potential.

[/ QUOTE ]

if you ever watched a 76ers game, you would know thats the most untrue statement ever

[istewart]

[ QUOTE ]
I would say Larry Brown has pwnage over A.I.

A.I. - much like Kobe Bryant seem like tragic stories to me. Here's a couple of AMAZING talents...that were too self-absorbed to ever reach their full potential.

[/ QUOTE ]

And their careers are over? Iverson is the unofficial MVP (JMO) and a probable runner-up, I don't see how you can really say that.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would say Larry Brown has pwnage over A.I.

A.I. - much like Kobe Bryant seem like tragic stories to me. Here's a couple of AMAZING talents...that were too self-absorbed to ever reach their full potential.

[/ QUOTE ]

And their careers are over? Iverson is the unofficial MVP (JMO) and a probable runner-up, I don't see how you can really say that.

[/ QUOTE ]

LBJ is clearly the choice for MVP if you aren't going to route of Nash/Shaq. He did much more for his team despite them falling just short of the playoffs.

[istewart]

Well Iverson got his team to the playoffs nearly single-handedly, including in the last 5 games of the season where he absolutely dominated. I don't think James did "much more" at all.

[trying2learn]

read what i said more carefully. i am quick to admit that he's incredible...probably pound for pound the best that's ever played.

yet...he has NOTHING to show for it. that practice tirade is proof in the pudding. he just has never had the drive to do WHATEVER it takes to make himself AND his team hit their potential. larry brown left and took a team of much inferior talent to the promise land. this is because it was a group of people who were not above the game, or in need of being the top clip on sportcenter every night.

i'm amazed at how many people buy into the 'highlight' generation. chris webber as an addition to this team is another perfect example of this flawed way of going after a championship.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
Well Iverson got his team to the playoffs nearly single-handedly, including in the last 5 games of the season where he absolutely dominated. I don't think James did "much more" at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you look at the rosters, I don't think it could be an argument. Without LBJ, the Cavs would win 10 games, tops. The 76ers would be about the caliber of a Charlotte team without AI. LBJ's teamates did nothing for the team compared to what Korver, Iguodala, Dalembert, and the rest do for the 76ers.

[istewart]

Larry Brown had Rasheed Wallace and Ben Wallace, not to mention a slew of others. The Pistons did not have "inferior talent."

[trying2learn]

iverson would be favored to win a one-on-one championship against maybe anyone...too bad such a thing doesn't exist.

[tbach24]

I still disagree. The way the AI helps out his team, only LeBron does more, and its not by much. And LeBron is the best player ever. AI pours himself into every game. Watch a 76ers game and you'll understand. And this is coming from a diehard C's fan.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
iverson would be favored to win a one-on-one championship against maybe anyone...too bad such a thing doesn't exist.

[/ QUOTE ]

You clearly don't understand basketball and have never seen AI play.

[banditbdl]

[ QUOTE ]
LBJ is clearly the choice for MVP if you aren't going to route of <font color="red"> Nash </font> /Shaq

[/ QUOTE ]

Nash isn't even the most valuable player on his own team for cripes sake.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
LBJ is clearly the choice for MVP if you aren't going to route of <font color="red"> Nash </font> /Shaq

[/ QUOTE ]

Nash isn't even the most valuable player on his own team for cripes sake.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's ridiculous to say. Look at how Phoenix fared w/o Nash.

[trying2learn]

lol...okay...good internet forum logic.

he'll have at least 5 more draw-dropping crossover moves before he can take another 6 months off.

[istewart]

Korver, Dalembert and co. aren't exactly gods, and James had Ilgauskas and Gooden, for starters. The fact remains that Iverson did get his team to the playoffs while James did not.

[banditbdl]

How do you think they'd do without Amare? Nash opens things up a lot with his passing and driving, but without Amare their perimeter game would fall apart IMHO.

[istewart]

[ QUOTE ]
And LeBron is the best player ever.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow... not even close, but whatever.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
How do you think they'd do without Amare? Nash opens things up a lot with his passing and driving, but without Amare their perimeter game would fall apart IMHO.

[/ QUOTE ]

W/o Amare, they would still be a playoff team. Insert KMart or a similar player and they would be the best team in the West still.

[trying2learn]

nash makes amare, marion, and co. better...that's why he's the mvp.

[bort411]

40% field goal shooting is pathetic for a superstar guard. Perhaps it's just me, but aren't there about 75-100 guys in the league who could put up his points if they took as many shots? What else does he bring to the table? Size? Defense? Here's a fun fact: spanning his career, Iverson has more games with a technical foul (91) than he does with a double-double (42).

He's a one dimensional player who's not even that good at his dimension. I just never understood the hype.

[trying2learn]

because we're part of the "and-one" generation now. and they claim we don't know basketball.

and white men can't jump is a better basketball film than hoosiers.

[tbach24]

basketball players can't be measured like baseball players. that's all i have to say about the FG% argument

[trying2learn]

the point is - he's a highlight reel - and a DAMN good one at that.

but he's gotten as close as he's ever going to get to a ring...now it's first, MAYBE second round...and done for the year.

and a he'll have a bunch of internet kids who think he's the epitome of pwnage.

[tolbiny]

"yet...he has NOTHING to show for it. that practice tirade is proof in the pudding. he just has never had the drive to do WHATEVER it takes to make himself AND his team hit their potential. larry brown left and took a team of much inferior talent to the promise land. this is because it was a group of people who were not above the game, or in need of being the top clip on sportcenter every night."

What? less talented team? without iverson the 76'ers that made it to the finals against the lakers were probably the least talented team to ever make it that far. How many all stars were on that team?
The pistons have two all star cliber guys named Wallace. Prince is very good, and the rest of their team, also good. Anyone who doesn't look at Iverson as having amoung the highest drive in the league is delusional. He leads the league in mins and is the smallest guy on the court- and plays the most involved positon. He doesn't go full out in practice because he would be dead if he did. He saves it all up for game time, and then lays it out there.

[istewart]

[ QUOTE ]
the point is - he's a highlight reel - and a DAMN good one at that.

but he's gotten as close as he's ever going to get to a ring...now it's first, MAYBE second round...and done for the year.

and a he'll have a bunch of internet kids who think he's the epitome of pwnage.

[/ QUOTE ]

He
has
no
team.

[banditbdl]

[ QUOTE ]
Insert KMart or a similar player and they would be the best team in the West still.

[/ QUOTE ]

No way. KMart isn't fit to carry Amare's jock as an offensive player. Also, by the same logic I really think you could plug an above-average point guard into Nash's spot and the Suns wouldn't lose nearly as much as everyone gives Nash credit for. Part of the reason Phoenix stunk so bad when Nash was out is because they don't have any sort of serviceable guys to back him up at the point position.

[tbach24]

you = stupid.

wallace was the best center in the nba last year
tayshaun prince is absolutely sick, one of a kind player
chauncey is pretty much the best PG after nash/kidd
they had an absolutely ridiculous bench
rasheed had a great time with the pistons

to say that they dont have a great lineup is borderline retarded

[trying2learn]

here's an interesting question...if you trade nash for iverson TODAY...does Phoenix win the title or become a heavier favorite than they are now?

and i would say that iverson KILLS nash heads up...but i don't know that the new version of Phoenix wouldn't be worse off.

he has no team...and some of that is his fault is my point.

[istewart]

I believe when Nash was out their backup point guard was out as well. Injured I think.

[tolbiny]

Cleveland fan here.
Iverson is the mvp over james (if it came down to those two- in reality its shaq). When the season was on the line for the cavs james pushed hard but is still to inexpieenced to know how to take over a game. Its not deisre or skill right now, he just doesn't know how to dominate the game in the NBA. Soon he will.
Iverson showed the last 5 games of the season exactly what an MVP is- when they needed a win he averaged what, 33 and 12? Now he is the only player on the 76ers giving them a chance to win a series. I would trade anybody but lebron on the cavs, plus draft picks for years for iverson. Lebron and AI would be the greatest thing to watch ever.

[trying2learn]

you can name call all you want. i'm not interested in that...do you not understand anything that i'm trying to say? or do you just think that i'm talking out of my ass? because it seems you are completely missing my point.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Insert KMart or a similar player and they would be the best team in the West still.

[/ QUOTE ]

No way. KMart isn't fit to carry Amare's jock as an offensive player. Also, by the same logic I really think you could plug an above-average point guard into Nash's spot and the Suns wouldn't lose nearly as much as everyone gives Nash credit for. Part of the reason Phoenix stunk so bad when Nash was out is because they don't have any sort of serviceable guys to back him up at the point position.

[/ QUOTE ]

Look at the early nets from a few years back. they were the same exact team, except kidd was way better than nash and the rest of the crew wasnt as good as the suns crew. kidd is the only player you could sub for nash, and that is why i dont think he should be mvp. but seriously, the similarities between the nets and suns are ridiculous

[istewart]

[ QUOTE ]
Cleveland fan here.
Iverson is the mvp over james (if it came down to those two- in reality its shaq). When the season was on the line for the cavs james pushed hard but is still to inexpieenced to know how to take over a game. Its not deisre or skill right now, he just doesn't know how to dominate the game in the NBA. Soon he will.
Iverson showed the last 5 games of the season exactly what an MVP is- when they needed a win he averaged what, 33 and 12? Now he is the only player on the 76ers giving them a chance to win a series. I would trade anybody but lebron on the cavs, plus draft picks for years for iverson. Lebron and AI would be the greatest thing to watch ever.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good points. Sorry about your Cavs /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
you can name call all you want. i'm not interested in that...do you not understand anything that i'm trying to say? or do you just think that i'm talking out of my ass? because it seems you are completely missing my point.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're talking out of your ass. I completely understand your point and couldn't disagree more tho.

[istewart]

Tim Legler = pwn #2.

[trying2learn]

well, then that's fair. we agree to disagree. but IMHO the team game is completely lost on this generation. you saying the pistons were the best at each position last year is way off base...they were just hands down the best TEAM last year. with the best coach. the NBA sucks because it's a sport that can't figure out how to market a bunch of individual talents into a team format. again...my two cents from out my hind end.

[ghostface]

[ QUOTE ]
well they play different positions so its a tough comparison. if they played on the same team though, it would be the ultimate pwn. i would probably actually watch basketball then.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? So that there would be absolutely NO defense at all whatsoever in any game ever? That would be fun.

[banditbdl]

[ QUOTE ]
Look at the early nets from a few years back. they were the same exact team

[/ QUOTE ]

This year's Suns would blow those Nets out of the water, they would dismantle them. Don't forget what a piece of [censored] the Eastern Conf. was that year the Nets went to the Finals. The Suns won more games against better competition than those Nets teams. I know you acknowledged this Suns crew was better than that Nets crew but don't underestimate just how much better they really are.

Amare &gt;&gt;&gt; KMart
The Matrix &gt;&gt; Richard Jefferson
Q and Joe Johnson &gt;&gt; then Kittles and whoever else the Nets had to shoot it and run the break.

Plus the Suns could trot out their regular starters and pretty much force the Nets to dump Dikembe and go small because he was such a stiff and Marion could have handled KMart well enough to get by.

[banditbdl]

As a follow-up don't underestimate how Amare and Marion's athleticism and ability to at least stay with bigger guys let's the Suns play with the smaller lineup and give Nash room to work by forcing their style of play on the opposition.

Example: You put KMart in for Amare and all the sudden you're looking at KMart trying to D-up Duncan, Yao, or somebody. KMart is tough, you can never take that away from him but he'll get eaten alive here. The Suns will have to put in a bigger stiff to try to play some D, then move Amare to the 4, Marion to the 3, and take Johnson or Richardson off the floor. That's a HUGE loss for the Suns.

[solid]

[ QUOTE ]
As a follow-up don't underestimate how Amare and Marion's athleticism and ability to at least stay with bigger guys let's the Suns play with the smaller lineup

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is really one of the biggest keys to the Suns success. Marion's ability to stay with the premier 4s in the West at his size is amazing. And Amare's a freak. Even he admits that he gets by on pure athleticism a lot and that he's got a ton more to learn about the game.

[istewart]

Korver. Worst. Shot. Ever.

[solid]

[ QUOTE ]
Korver. Worst. Shot. Ever.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously. There were still like 6 seconds on the clock when he put up that monstrosity.

[swede123]

[ QUOTE ]
And LeBron is the best player ever.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tbach, how do expect anyone to take you seriously after gems like this. LeBron is definitely one of the best ever in his second year in the league, but calling someone the best ever is wrong on so many levels. Seriously, man.

Swede

[Phoenix1010]

I don't even know where to start here, there's so much wrongness in this thread.

Trying2learn, your first comment on Kobe and AI is laughable. Didn't ever reach their full potential? Kobe Bryant has three championship rings and he's not even halfway through his career, and you're talking like he hasn't accomplished anything and won't get a chance to. Allen Iverson has an MVP award, numerous scoring titles, and a finals appearance under his belt already, and he has NEVER had a championship-caliber team. If you don't think what he's managed to do this year (31 ppg, 8 apg, playoff berth with a subpar team) is not reaching his full potential, then you must really think highly of him.

To say that he never did what it took to make his team reach it's full potential is ridiculous. He took a team of role players to the finals, and ran into a juggernaut. During that time there was simply no higher platform that an Eastern Conference team could possibly reach. You might as well blame Jason Kidd for not beating the Lakers, or blame Karl Malone for not beating the Bulls. Gimme a break.

Larry Brown left and took a team of VERY GOOD players (if you think for a second that 1-12 the Sixers are more talented than the Pistons, you're out of your mind) and took them to the finals. We agree, Larry Brown is a good coach. What's your point, are you saying that Allen Iverson could help his team reach their full potential by also being as good a head coach as LB? Coaches coach, players play, and no one has played as well as Iverson has. Saying that Larry Brown is better able to coach a winning team says absolutely nothing about what Iverson's merits are.

You're mad that single talented players get more attention than well-coached teams with solid players that work well together. There's nothing wrong with that. You're right, well coached teams with solid players that work well together are more successful and more likely to win a championship than teams with just one superstar, poor coaching, and weak supporting players. The success or failure of a team cannot be blamed or credited to one player. Therefore it's strange that you somehow blame Philadelphia's lack of a championship on Iverson, and not on the organization. Where you're getting mixed up is thinking that it's the star player's fault for not having the coaching and supporting cast that he would need to reach that higher level. Can you give Tim Duncan credit for having Manu Ginobli, Tony Parker, Greg Popovich and all the other great people in the Spurs organization that make them such a great team? It is the management and the coaching staff that put the team together, the players just have to go out there and play with what they're given. If that team is good enough to win a championship, you can't credit it to one player (It's clear now, as it's just silly to say that the Pistons won the championship because of Chauncey Billups, but it was true even in the Jordan days. Could he do it without Phil Jackson, Scotty Pippen and others? I think Kobe Bryant is answering that right now). Similarly, if that team is not good enough to win a championship, it's ridiculous to blame it on any one player.

[istewart]

NH... pwnt.

[Phoenix1010]

[ QUOTE ]
LBJ is clearly the choice for MVP if you aren't going to route of Nash/Shaq. He did much more for his team despite them falling just short of the playoffs.

[/ QUOTE ]

The MVP award is flawed. If it were truly a measure of who was absolutely the most valuable player for any team to have, Shaq would win unequivocally every year, Nash would not be anywhere near in the running, and LeBron and Allen Iverson would be battling for the second spot. There would be no clear choice.

It seems that most people see the award today as a measure of which player in the league was most instrumental to his team's success, in which case team success, the replaceablity of the player, and the degree to which the player carried the team on his own are the largest factors. In this case, Shaq and Nash have very strong cases for MVP, since they had the two strongest teams in the league, but their cases are weakened by the fact that they both had tons of help (Nash is further weakened by the fact that there are several similar point guards who can do what he does, and more). As far as the battle between Iverson and LeBron, this one is easy. First off, Iverson clawed out wins nearly single handedly when they needed to win to get his team to the playoffs, while LeBron's team fell apart down the stretch (not his fault) and did not make the playoffs. Secondly, anyone who is saying that Iverson had stronger support than LeBron is being ridiculous. Lebron had an allstar center on his team, that alone is enough to settle the question. We don't even have to talk about Drew Gooden and Jeff Mcginnis. Iverson carried his team to the playoffs with minimal help. If there is a clear choice, it's him.

[istewart]

Phoenix, I like your style.

[Phoenix1010]

Oh yeah, I should point out that everything Tolbiny, Istewart, and Banditbl said was correct, and their posts were like oases in the desert of wrongness that this thread was.

[The Yugoslavian]

Threads like this make baby jesus cry.

Thankfully Phoenix was available to clean up the mess...

Yugoslav

[tolbiny]

"We don't even have to talk about Drew Gooden and Jeff Mcginnis"

Good, no one around here wants to hear about them.
Iguaskus is good- newble plays hard, but offers no offense- haveing one good non-center defensive player on the floor is worthless imo- he won't have a big enough impact on the game (unless hes dennis rodman).
I will take AV back as a good bench player and maybe sasha pavlovic... the rest of the team are a bunch of bums who will float around the league for 2-3 years after the cavs cut them.

[Phoenix1010]

[ QUOTE ]
"We don't even have to talk about Drew Gooden and Jeff Mcginnis"

Good, no one around here wants to hear about them.
Iguaskus is good- newble plays hard, but offers no offense- haveing one good non-center defensive player on the floor is worthless imo- he won't have a big enough impact on the game (unless hes dennis rodman).
I will take AV back as a good bench player and maybe sasha pavlovic... the rest of the team are a bunch of bums who will float around the league for 2-3 years after the cavs cut them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, the Cavs are pretty weak other than LeBron, and McGinnis and Gooden are no exception. However, the fact is that BOTH Jeff McGinnis and Drew Gooden averaged more points than ANY of Iverson's supporting cast (aside from Webber, who joined the team late, and was either injured or ineffective for much of his regular season stay with Philadelphia), and McGinnis averaged more assists than anyone on AI's crew, while Gooden averaged more rebounds than any Sixer. LeBron's teammates were pretty weak, but they were actually very helpful in comparison to Iverson's, and this is excluding the allstar who averaged 17 and 9, and gave the Cavs a post presence that the Sixers haven't enjoyed since Dikembe Mutumbo.

On a side note, I do agree that the Cavs really have to do something about their team. LBJ does not have nearly the support (in coaching or players) he would need to take this team deep into the playoffs, and the organization can't afford to allow the thought of leaving Cleaveland to even enter his brain. Ilgauskas doesn't look like he has too many good years left either. Hopefully they can pick up Phil Jackson and perhaps Michael Redd and things will start rolling in a good direction from there.

[Vince Young]

[ QUOTE ]
LeBron is the best player ever.

[/ QUOTE ]
Did you really question whether or not I watch basketball?

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
LeBron is the best player ever.

[/ QUOTE ]
Did you really question whether or not I watch basketball?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I'll admit he is not yet, but I'd say there is a 75% chance he will be. I still think he's the best player in the league right now though. He's very exciting to watch too.

[istewart]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd say there is a 75% chance he will be.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is ridiculous.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd say there is a 75% chance he will be.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is ridiculous.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who do you consider to be the best player ever? IMO easily Jordan (excuse my former comments about it being LBJ). LBJ is 20 years old. 20. He is already as good as Magic was at this age and is around much worse players. He keeps himself in great shape so I don't think injuries will be a concern. Honestly, the 25% was to make up for the fact that the Cavs' management = the suck. He is so nasty.

[istewart]

I don't think he will ever be as good as Jordan was. I'm probably underestimating him, but saying there's a 75% chance he will be is absurd IMHO.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think he will ever be as good as Jordan was. I'm probably underestimating him, but saying there's a 75% chance he will be is absurd IMHO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably, but he's my favorite athlete and so I have to throw out ridiculous claims.

[Phoenix1010]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
LeBron is the best player ever.

[/ QUOTE ]
Did you really question whether or not I watch basketball?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I'll admit he is not yet, but I'd say there is a 75% chance he will be. I still think he's the best player in the league right now though. He's very exciting to watch too.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, the first quote is quite ridiculous. I figured this is what you were trying to say though. I actually agree with this latest post almost completely. I wouldn't say he's the best player in the league right now either however, but certainly in the top 5.

[tbach24]

Just out of curiousity, what team do you follow?

[Phoenix1010]

All of them.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
All of them.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol. I should rephrase this, which team do you root for?

[Phoenix1010]

Knicks- They suck, but I'm from New York and can't help myself.
Kings- I've liked them ever since the Jason Williams/Chris Webber days. The Peja/Webber/Bibby/Christie/Brad machine was one of my favorite lineups of all time.
Sixers- Iverson. Something about an unstoppable basketball player who is six foot zero is just inspiring.
Pacers- Reggie is one of my favorites of all time, despite my being a Knicks fan. Teams with heart also get my vote. I thought they were the best team in the league last year, and I had them pegged to win the championship this year after Artest started the season off looking like an MVP. What O'Brien has done this year should go down in league history as one of the best coaching jobs ever.
Cavs- LeBron seems like the second coming of the Great One. I'm just glad I get to be in the generation that watches him reach his prime.

[FoxwoodsFiend]

[ QUOTE ]

yet...he has NOTHING to show for it. that practice tirade is proof in the pudding. he just has never had the drive to do WHATEVER it takes to make himself AND his team hit their potential. larry brown left and took a team of much inferior talent to the promise land. this is because it was a group of people who were not above the game, or in need of being the top clip on sportcenter every night.

i'm amazed at how many people buy into the 'highlight' generation. chris webber as an addition to this team is another perfect example of this flawed way of going after a championship.

[/ QUOTE ]

For some reason, you believe that if AI weren't so flashy his team would do better. I don't think you can accuse AI of not having enough heart and drive. But honestly, tell me if you think MJ with all his drive could have won a title in the same era as Tim Duncan's Spurs and Shaq and Kobe's Lakers if, like AI, the list of the best players he's had around him in recent history included:
Aaron McKie
George Lynch
An aging Dikembe Mutombo
Jerry Stackhouse (in AI's earliest years)
Samuel Dalembert
Kyle Korver
Kenny Thomas
Derrick Coleman
a washed out Glenn Robinson.
Honestly, give AI a break.